Direction of cattle operation questions???

[Kell-inKY]

Whew!, I finally got logged on here, I have a few questions, I will try to keep it short and to the point.

My background: My wife and I purchased a small run down horse farm in Western Kentucky 2 years ago after having never even owned a dog. I spent a lot of time putting in fences, fixing broken fences, and cutting trees. I purchased 5 young black heifers and let them mature, and finally found an angus bull in July of last year. The heifers were very close to being 24 months old by then. We currently have 20 acres of pasture and feed hay in winter, though I wish to fix that next year (winter grazing). I am converting another 20 acres of soybean field to pasture this next fall, will plant annual ryegrass this spring temporarily on the 20.

Now, I have a choice of directions. I can try to keep doing what I am doing and try to get calves this spring and get the cows bred back by the same bull, then sell him. I DO NOT LIKE HAVING THE BULL HERE YEAR ROUND, AI is not an option where I live, too expensive, no large animal vets close.

Or, I can sell what I have, and purchase feeder calves this spring, raise them all summer on my grass, and sell in fall without having to feed hay. With the market like it is this sounds risky, but would allow me to work on the pasture more in the winter and not have to buy hay. Plus I might actually make money for once.

Although I enjoy this, I need to make enough money to replace what we were getting off of the row crops. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Although I am pretty green at this, I spent a little time around cattle when I was a kid. I have TONS of questions beyond this. Also, we have a lot of interest from people wanting to buy beef as well. I guess that covers the basics, Thanks in advance, Kelly (I'm a guy)

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I'll send you a pm.

 

[skyhightree1]

Whew!, I finally got logged on here, I have a few questions, I will try to keep it short and to the point.

My background: My wife and I purchased a small run down horse farm in Western Kentucky 2 years ago after having never even owned a dog. I spent a lot of time putting in fences, fixing broken fences, and cutting trees. I purchased 5 young black heifers and let them mature, and finally found an angus bull in July of last year. The heifers were very close to being 24 months old by then. We currently have 20 acres of pasture and feed hay in winter, though I wish to fix that next year (winter grazing). I am converting another 20 acres of soybean field to pasture this next fall, will plant annual ryegrass this spring temporarily on the 20.

Now, I have a choice of directions. I can try to keep doing what I am doing and try to get calves this spring and get the cows bred back by the same bull, then sell him. I DO NOT LIKE HAVING THE BULL HERE YEAR ROUND, AI is not an option where I live, too expensive, no large animal vets close.

Or, I can sell what I have, and purchase feeder calves this spring, raise them all summer on my grass, and sell in fall without having to feed hay. With the market like it is this sounds risky, but would allow me to work on the pasture more in the winter and not have to buy hay. Plus I might actually make money for once.

Although I enjoy this, I need to make enough money to replace what we were getting off of the row crops. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Although I am pretty green at this, I spent a little time around cattle when I was a kid. I have TONS of questions beyond this. Also, we have a lot of interest from people wanting to buy beef as well. I guess that covers the basics, Thanks in advance, Kelly (I'm a guy)

:welcome: I would like to tell you one thing.. NEVER assume just because its summer that you will not have to feed hay and have plenty of grass.. Droughts happen. :2cents:

 

[Rafter S]

If you don't want to keep a bull, and AI isn't an option, you could try leasing a bull, but I don't know if that's an feasible in your area. Another option to consider would be to buy some older heavy-bred cows in the spring. Let them have their calves, then sell the cows and calves in the fall. That would avoid the need for hay or a bull, and I'd think older cows would be less trouble than buying calves, and maybe less financial risk.

 

[dieselbeef]

tought time to be buying feeders..cow calf is a better direction right now

 

[denvermartinfarms]

tought time to be buying feeders..cow calf is a better direction right now

How do you figure?

 

[Brute 23]

tought time to be buying feeders..cow calf is a better direction right now

How do you figure?

I've never done the "feeders" deal but I would also say its a risky time to buy calves. Cattle market is at an all time high. There is a good chance it will fall in the near future. What goes up must come down. I'd hate to buy a group of 3$ calves and they go to .8$ on me.

Just look at oil... same thing could... and will... happen to cattle at some point IMO. :tiphat:

 

[Engler]

Go to the local feed mill/coffee shop/salebarn/farm store and find someone to help and mentor you. Maybe it's a vet, or salebarn manager or best case an old guy that's been there and done that. A little "free" labor by you with his operation can be the best tuition paid in the school of hard knocks. There are a lot of old timers that once you can convince them to open up are a gold mine of info, stories (about good and bad), and if you get in a bind having Joe or Sam of Fred that you can call and help is priceless.

There are differences between 2 operations across the road from one and other in what works, you have people from all over the country, scratch that, all over the globe on here. What works for me in Iowa, or somebody in South Africa, or, or, or might not work for you.

You have to crawl before you walk and walk before you run. I've been working on my current operation for 7 years and the one thing that I have learned is that I am dumber now that what I thought I was when I started. I've got 2 vets that I use, 3 nutrition people that I pick their brains, probably 10-15 that I sample genetics from, and way too many peers who I call on this that or the other. It's good to have guys (and gals) that are smarter than you in this or that. Good luck and enjoy the ride.

 

[dieselbeef]

tought time to be buying feeders..cow calf is a better direction right now

How do you figure?

he already has half the operation for starters and im sure you've seen the market prices lately. if he has any inputs he wont be making much..and since hes kinda new id say hes asking for a lot to do

wtf do I know tho..not being a smarta$$..but I really don't know a lot about any of it

 

[skyhightree1]

Cattle prices can anytime.. Any business has a risk factor and you are never guaranteed not to loose money. I personally buy calves whenever I can find them 200-250lbs and feed till 500 and then sell them. When you are buying calves like that you have to try to buy as cheap as possible so that even if prices do fall you will still make a lil money. I haven't paid 3.00 pr lb for any calves I raised yet but I sure have sold several at 3 per lb. I will be buying several here pretty soon I will come back and let you know if I lose my arse.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

tought time to be buying feeders..cow calf is a better direction right now

How do you figure?

he already has half the operation for starters and im sure you've seen the market prices lately. if he has any inputs he wont be making much..and since hes kinda new id say hes asking for a lot to do

wtf do I know tho..not being a smarta$$..but I really don't know a lot about any of it

I wasn't being smart either. There's alot of ways to look at it. The same operation doesn't fit everyone's needs. The amount of time and money a person can invest also makes a big difference.

I have a herd of cows, I buy plain 450 to 700lb bulls, band and vaccinate them and sell as Pre conditioned steers about 45 days later and I also do a fair deal of trading.

I have found that buying less than perfect calves, putting some work in them and selling a group 3 to 4 times a year, can sometimes be a better way to go for a person with limited land and resources than having a small herd of cows and selling 1 calf per year.

Either way in not buying the very best cows or calves, big fancy black 3000$ cows make very little sense to me, and buying the best calves you can find doesn't work either.

 

[Kell-inKY]

I've spent way too much time on here reading at work today, still at 50/50 on direction. But I sure have learned a lot. I had never even heard of a bud box before!

Thanks, any input appreciated.

 

[Brute 23]

I still like the calf deal. Raising a bunch of bottle calves is my retirement plan.

 

[cow pollinater]

Another option to consider would be to buy some older heavy-bred cows in the spring. Let them have their calves, then sell the cows and calves in the fall. That would avoid the need for hay or a bull, and I'd think older cows would be less trouble than buying calves, and maybe less financial risk.

I made a bunch of money doing just that for quite a while in my late teens/early twenties. If you can get broken mouth cows a little on the thin side and give them soft grass it's a home run.

 

[dieselbeef]

can be a high attrition rate with bottle babys...watch out for and acct for possible losses. most of em are dairy anyways round here and they dont bring near as much as a beef calf will

its alot alot alot more work...

 

[Kell-inKY]

No bottle babies for me, I won't go into the details there...

I went to the local feed store for supplies and talked to someone who raised cattle. He told me that the feeder direction was definitely the way to go. By the time I left there, it had switched to buying bred cows! That about sums up my dilemma there. I will take you guys advice and try to visit the local farmer we used to buy our beef off of this weekend, and my uncle who I haven't visited in 35 years raises cattle.

If my pasture expansion does not work out (my question posted in the pasture section) then I may just have to stick with what I have for now, no buying of anything.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Would it be possible for you to get those heifers pregged? With you trying to figure out what you should do, it might make a difference if you knew where your at with what you already have.

 

[Kell-inKY]

I think we finally found a vet that might do that. However, I don't have my chute built yet, that is my next project question on here. I have the headgate, just need help designing. But, it would be good to know since if they aren't pregnant, they need to go anyway. Nobody in heat since August and bull was semen checked before, so here's hoping. I keep playing whack a mole on the farm, as soon as one thing gets done, the next pops up, and then there are all those things the wife wants done on the house.....