Different breeds in USA and Australia

[mwj]

If black is a ''scam'' on the public, why are the cattle producers the ones that changed to black? Things have changed a lot since CAB became popular. Who would have dreamed of 1650 lb fat cattle without being docked would be normal.

 

[M.Magis]

If black is a ''scam'' on the public, why are the cattle producers the ones that changed to black? Things have changed a lot since CAB became popular. Who would have dreamed of 1650 lb fat cattle without being docked would be normal.

You're interjecting common sense into an argument based on a complete lack of common sense.

 

[kenny thomas]

If black is a ''scam'' on the public, why are the cattle producers the ones that changed to black? Things have changed a lot since CAB became popular. Who would have dreamed of 1650 lb fat cattle without being docked would be normal.

This brings up the question of moderate frame. Many breeders of moderate frame bulls have taken it too far.

 

[mwj]

Some things are hard to change and most people will work with what they have. A big frame score bull will help some.

What the bad thing with color is, it is very hard to go away from black. If they came out with a fifty cent premium for a red ''hide'' color, very few would benefit. If you have black cows your only option would be paint or change your cows .

 

[Brute 23]

If black is a ''scam'' on the public, why are the cattle producers the ones that changed to black? Things have changed a lot since CAB became popular. Who would have dreamed of 1650 lb fat cattle without being docked would be normal.

"Producers" is a pretty loose term. I don't see long time cattle guys trading in red cattle for blacks. A lot of the black cattle are sold with the Yellowstone starter kit when people move to the country. It comes with alot of promises of meat quality and the fortune it will generate. They end up selling at the auction barn for the same, or less, as the calves off the red cows.

 

[mwj]

I see a lot of black bulls being used to get black calves. By the way a lot of them are those ''long term'' cattle guys.

 

[kenny thomas]

Im not against using black cows or bulls. All my bulls are homozygous black Simmental. I just feel over the years we have gave up a lot of weaning weight.
I feel the use of easy calving bulls that were designed for heifers and then used on mature cows have caused a lot of loss of weaning weight.
As mentioned before it seems were seeing a lot of cattle finishing over 1500-1600. A 500-550lb weaning weight is probably going to finish way below that.

 

[Ky hills]

@kenny thomas yes I am in agreement they have been moderating frame for 3 decades now. Enough is enough and they have taken it way too far,
I used to have a Charolais bull that was an 11 frame. That was too extreme, on the other hand 4-5 is too small. I don't care how much a fat 5 frame cow weighs at maturity, Bred to another 5 frame bull that resulting calf is going to have a pretty low growth ceiling.
Selling calves that look the least bit fleshy gets you discounted, forget any so called CAB premium for black calves selling fleshy weaned calves.
Whoever buys them might pick up a premium after grouping up a bunch of yearlings.
In the early 90's I was getting around 750 - 800+ lb weaning weights with purebred Charolais bull calves and over 700 lb for heifers. With Angus sired calves, I'm really happy with 550 almost to the point that I'm thinking wow I can't believe they weighed that good. Years ago that would have been well below the very bottom end cattle growth wise.
With Herefords we've gotten a little bitty bit better weaning weights, but with the Hereford dock it ain't worth it, unless you just really like Herefords. My wife does, so there's that
You have to watch Hereford selection just as close or closer than Angus cause the movers and shakers of the Hereford breed are closely aligned with the show ring and those cattle can be little short fat toads too.
I like at least upper 5 frame up through 7 and would say 8 but probably impossible to find an 8 frame animal these days.
@mwj on the subject of breeding for red from black cows. It can be done just takes a little while. Breed the black cows to a red breed bull. First generation calves would be black but heterozygous. retain those heifers breed to another red breed bull and a good percentage of those calves will be red.
If anybody keeps back heifers each year, you could add a significant number of red replacements within 2-3 generations of breeding for it.

 

[Brute 23]

I see a lot of black bulls being used to get black calves. By the way a lot of them are those ''long term'' cattle guys.

Two completely different things using black bulls vs cows.

 

[mwj]

Has the slaughter weight of kill cows gone down? Everyone wants a 1200 lb cow but a lot are shocked at the weight when they sell them. I think those big steers are getting a growing ration for longer before they get to a hot finishing ration. Yield grade fours kill the profit real quick.

 

[kenny thomas]

Has the slaughter weight of kill cows gone down? Everyone wants a 1200 lb cow but a lot are shocked at the weight when they sell them. I think those big steers are getting a growing ration for longer before they get to a hot finishing ration. Yield grade fours kill the profit real quick.

I agree on the YG4 hurting the price but isnt it more likely that a 4-5 frame calf will hit that yield grade than a 6 frame?

 

[Dave]

Angus both black and red sell pretty much the same money here. Hereford involved had better just be a cross. Black and red baldies sell right with right with the solid black or red calves. Straight Herefords get docked 25-30 cents. Char cross calves sell right there too. Although they better be black nosed calves. A pink nosed Char will get cut off and sell cheaper. Roans sell cheaper and so does anything with spots. The longhorn and corrente crosses sell for about half what straight beef calves sell for. This week at the sale there was 2 Angus Jersey cross calves in good flesh that weight 550. They sold for $1.50. Straight beef calves that size were well over $3.00, even pushing $4.00.

 

[Jbrazel]

As they age, you see fewer and fewer buyers pay a premium for black calves. At weaning, just about any black beef type will always bring more than a wrong color calf of equal quality. As they reach stocker, feeder and finished age, a lot more won't sell for more than a like-quality other-color animal. At slaughter, of all the ones that get stamped to be sent over to see if they qualify for CAB, about 23% of the carcasses actually get it by passing all 10 qualifications.

That's interesting. I wonder if you buying them for more at a young age but selling for similar for slaughter or feeder steers would you really be making more from them if you where trading steers. Here in Australia blacks I see blacks selling for about a dollar more per kg then cross breds at feeder size.

 

[mwj]

Do you have any premium programs for Angus cattle in Australia? There hast to be a reason for that big of a price difference.

 

[Jbrazel]

Do you have any premium programs for Angus cattle in Australia? There hast to be a reason for that big of a price difference.

Yes Angus beef is what people/supermarkets want so the feedlots and abattoirs will pay more to get them. It's the supply and demand for them that gets them more money.