Did anyone else have this happen near you?

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where i grew up in Miami this happened a lot :( people celebrating and firing guns into the air and innocent people getting killed.. all the people who were doing the firing of the weapon were drunk... back when i was married my x n i went to his friends house for a private fireworks show.. the friend blocked off 2 blocks on his street and had a huge block party and he n his brother would set up the fireworks in the street.. one of the more "festive" party goers thought it would be a big "help" to shoot out the street light so we could see the fireworks better.. only problem with that was the city had replaced the old style that would shatter with shatter proof covers.he got off 2 shots .. the shots ricocheted off and luckily hit 2 things ( a tree n a truck) and not people, a really brave guy put the idiot on the ground and disarmed him ...a little later while they were setting up the fireworks... which were set apart in a row down the center of the street and connected with gun powder... the guys brother was almost done with the set up and another idiot from the crowd threw a lit cigarette into the line of gun powder... 2nd 3rd and some 4th degree burns the brother suffered thru... he survived and of course the "block party" was forever canceled.... it was an annual tradition that had been done for 30 yrs without incident...
 
No around my area but the DFW area has problems with it every big holiday especially in the hispanic communities. Seems to be a big way of celebrating below the border (and now in Texas). Police have been cracking down on it as much as possible but pretty hard to handle in such a large area.
 
Many studies, including some by the US military have been done on this. Almost every death and injury from "falling bullets" has been caused by those shot at a shallow to moderate angle, where they impacted someone while still mostly in their original trajectory and direction of travel as when they left the muzzle, which is a long mostly straight flight, then transitions to a slight curve downward, still retaining enough velocity to break skin and even a skull. These, can kill.
Bullets fired straight up, or even close to it tho, lose their velocity, and then begin their travel back down. The studies show that their velocity when they hit the ground is very low.

What goes (straight) up, must come (slowly) down

Indeed, what goes up must come down -– but not at the same speed. When the bullet is falling down, it slows down and reaches a point where it no longer accelerates. It starts to free-fall: this is its terminal velocity. A falling bullet fired straight into the air has a very low terminal velocity. In other words, it is not freefalling at a fast enough speed to kill you.



Hatching a plan: initial trajectory testing

Studies have consistently showed that when fired straight into the air, falling bullets cannot hit the ground with enough impact to be lethal. Major General Julian S. Hatcher, a U.S. Army firearms expert, wrote about falling bullets extensively in his 1962 book "Hatcher's Notebook". He described various military tests on bullets shot straight into the air (an intriguing past-time to be sure). When small bullets (weighing less than a pound) were shot straight into the air, they all made slight mark into a soft pine board when it reached the ground –- about one-sixteenth of an inch to be exact. The bullet's impact is not enough to be penetrating a person's flesh and bones — which is reassuring news for Independence Day revelers.



A word from the Myth Busters

Nearly 50 years later, popular polymath and co-host of the Discovery Channel's "Myth Busters", Adam Savage did a series of experiments to also test the science behind the claim. First, he built an acrylic wind tunnel and shot air through the bottom. His crew then attached an air hose to an aluminum pipe. By carefully controlling the air-flow and measuring the speed of the bullet, they fired bullets at free-fall speeds (around 150ft/s). They fired different types of bullets into the pig's head carcass and recorded it using a high-speed camera. Flying at 166 ft. /s, the 9mm bullet bounced right off the pig's head.



It's a little deserted: out in the open air

It's true: celebratory gunfire doesn't occur in such controlled conditions. To truly test how a bullet behaves in open air, the myth-busters journeyed out to the Mojave Desert, a 1.6 million acre park straddling southern California and Nevada. After shooting a series of bullets up into the air, they trawled through the dessert looking for "pencil-like holes" in the ground. After a tireless hunt, they found the bullets landed horizontally and only made 2" punctures in the ground. Again, the penetration is not enough to kill someone.



Up in the air: not as straightforward as you'd think

The myth-busters discovered one important exception: it is very difficult to shoot a bullet perfectly straight up into the air. Most are shot at an angle to some extent. In such cases, the bullet tumbles down too fast with a higher terminal velocity. At this speed, the bullet can penetrate a person and potentially causing death. This explains the many reported bullet-injuries across the U.S. with often fatal results — yet the practice remains legal in a few American states. Given the unlikeness of firing a bullet with such linear precision, let's leave the celebratory gunshots to the fictional gangsters and cowboys instead.
 
I puzzled on ths the last time it was posted. Seems like it would only reach terminal velocity, or below falling from the sky.
 
TexasBred":1pqfvytw said:
No around my area but the DFW area has problems with it every big holiday especially in the hispanic communities. Seems to be a big way of celebrating below the border (and now in Texas). Police have been cracking down on it as much as possible but pretty hard to handle in such a large area.
Every major holiday I just plan on my breeding route not going according to plan and up near #1 on the list of reasons why is milkers being arrested for illegally discharging weapons in a populated area shortly prior to their shift. :roll: Easter, Christmas, New Years, Fourth of July(yes, I said fourth of July. :???: )
Last year I had a whole shift on one of my herds not come to work. They had all been shooting except for one guy who was always complaining about everyone else at work. When the cops got to the party nobody said anything so everyone went to jail that night. Once they got to jail, one guy after another rolled over and told the cops it was the guy who who always complained at work. They let that poor *&^%er take the fall for the whole thing and now they all admit he was the only one that never fired a shot. :lol:
 
GB watched a program about these folks that build these tall radio towers etc. One dropped a bolt that only weighed a few ounces from a height of only a couple thousand feet. It went rather deeply into the ground. I dont' think it would have bounced off a human skull.
 
TexasBred":dah7vm3n said:
GB watched a program about these folks that build these tall radio towers etc. One dropped a bolt that only weighed a few ounces from a height of only a couple thousand feet. It went rather deeply into the ground. I dont' think it would have bounced off a human skull.

I own a large warehouse in town that I rent out. On two occasions in the last few years,both early in January, I have been called by my tenant to investigate a hole in the roof. Only find it after it rains, and I can only attribute it to a bullet fired during a new year celebration. I don't think someone is shooting a nine from an airplane. Not sure of the velocity but it makes a clean hole in a metallic roof the size of a nine mil. I would not trust it to not be able to puncture a skull. :hide:
 
Lots of difference between a "several ounce" bolt and a 7.62 bullet weighing about 10 grams. 10 grams is .35 ounces.
(1 ounce=28.3 grams)
"several" oz would, at minimum, be 3oz. That, is 84.9 grams or 242.6 X times as much the 7.62 bullet's weight.
May as well be comparing the ground impact indentation of a 2 lb brick dropped from the same height as a bullet.
To further put that in perspective, a guinea or chicken feather weighs about .57 grams.
 
I don't know who is right here but I respectfully decline to participate in the experiment.
I am willing to set up the concession stand while TB and GB conduct there own series of myth busters.
My money is it will not penetrate the skull of either as NASA would to study the hardness of both.
Replicate that material put it on the bottom of a space shuttle never loose another one.
 
Bigfoot":11mpd7a6 said:
I puzzled on ths the last time it was posted. Seems like it would only reach terminal velocity, or below falling from the sky.

You are half right. You are right in that IF the bullet was fired straight up in the air and it went to its maximum height, stalled, then fell to the ground the terminal velocity would be controlled solely on gravity and there would be little chance of it harming anyone. Might smart like the devil though. Ie, Assuming a 120 grain bullet shot straight in air it might peak out at 1000 feet, stall, return to ground. Velocity at ground would be around 146 ft/sec and would only have 5.67 ft/lbs of energy. However, tilt the barrel of the weapon and then when the bullet hits the ground it is still under the force of the powder and gravity and you have another situation altogether since the energy will increase exponentially which could very easily make it lethal.
 
Jogeephus":3t39aw4d said:
Bigfoot":3t39aw4d said:
I puzzled on ths the last time it was posted. Seems like it would only reach terminal velocity, or below falling from the sky.

You are half right. You are right in that IF the bullet was fired straight up in the air and it went to its maximum height, stalled, then fell to the ground the terminal velocity would be controlled solely on gravity and there would be little chance of it harming anyone. Might smart like the devil though. Ie, Assuming a 120 grain bullet shot straight in air it might peak out at 1000 feet, stall, return to ground. Velocity at ground would be around 146 ft/sec and would only have 5.67 ft/lbs of energy. However, tilt the barrel of the weapon and then when the bullet hits the ground it is still under the force of the powder and gravity and you have another situation altogether since the energy will increase exponentially which could very easily make it lethal.

I have become more conscious of shooting things out of a tree since the last thread. I have also had a roofer or two tell me recently that it is not uncommon to find rounds in roofs. Any way you look at it celebratory gunfire is probably not a best practice for showing enthusiasm.
 
M5farm":2yji6jgp said:
so exactly how far will a round travel when shot at the optimum trajectory ?

Probably depends on the caliber etc. something like a .243 would probably reach out a long way. A .22 is about the only thing I have ever fired in the air.
 
Jogeephus":w2ux09cy said:
Bigfoot":w2ux09cy said:
I puzzled on ths the last time it was posted. Seems like it would only reach terminal velocity, or below falling from the sky.

You are half right. You are right in that IF the bullet was fired straight up in the air and it went to its maximum height, stalled, then fell to the ground the terminal velocity would be controlled solely on gravity and there would be little chance of it harming anyone. Might smart like the devil though. Ie, Assuming a 120 grain bullet shot straight in air it might peak out at 1000 feet, stall, return to ground. Velocity at ground would be around 146 ft/sec and would only have 5.67 ft/lbs of energy. However, tilt the barrel of the weapon and then when the bullet hits the ground it is still under the force of the powder and gravity and you have another situation altogether since the energy will increase exponentially which could very easily make it lethal.
That's the fly in the buttermilk. Most people who do this sort of thing don't shoot straight up--not even close to it. This is why I said a bullet fired at an angle resulting in a long arc as it began to lose some of it's initial velocity would be more prone to still have punch left when it impacted 'something".
 
greybeard":p6o05wct said:
Lots of difference between a "several ounce" bolt and a 7.62 bullet weighing about 10 grams. 10 grams is .35 ounces.
(1 ounce=28.3 grams)
"several" oz would, at minimum, be 3oz. That, is 84.9 grams or 242.6 X times as much the 7.62 bullet's weight.
May as well be comparing the ground impact indentation of a 2 lb brick dropped from the same height as a bullet.
To further put that in perspective, a guinea or chicken feather weighs about .57 grams.
Your post simply said "small bullets weighing less than apound" so I referened the pound. I have no idea what these nuts and or bolts weighed. Only that they ahd to be dug out of the ground with a shovel.
 
M5farm":3tt5cut7 said:
so exactly how far will a round travel when shot at the optimum trajectory ?

They did a test on this years ago in Guns and Ammo. A 22 LR went 1.5 miles and a 7 Rem. Mag went 4 miles. If I remember right a shotgun slug went somewhere around 4,000 ft.
 
TexasBred":1eh1l9zw said:
greybeard":1eh1l9zw said:
Lots of difference between a "several ounce" bolt and a 7.62 bullet weighing about 10 grams. 10 grams is .35 ounces.
(1 ounce=28.3 grams)
"several" oz would, at minimum, be 3oz. That, is 84.9 grams or 242.6 X times as much the 7.62 bullet's weight.
May as well be comparing the ground impact indentation of a 2 lb brick dropped from the same height as a bullet.
To further put that in perspective, a guinea or chicken feather weighs about .57 grams.
Your post simply said "small bullets weighing less than apound" so I referened the pound. I have no idea what these nuts and or bolts weighed. Only that they ahd to be dug out of the ground with a shovel.

That, (I thought it would be self explanatory) was the military study. They used that reference to distinguish small arms bullets from other projectiles like artillery rounds and mortar shells.
Obviously, if you were to drop the 33lb HE projectile that comes out the muzzle of a 105 howitzer from even 10 ft over one's head, it's gonna leave more than a little mark.
 

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