Deworming.

[ksmit454]

Met with my vet this morning for a herd health check and these are his recommendations for my area:

Pour on dewormers are great for external parasites. Injectible and oral are a better route for internal parasites. He recommends Safeguard oral or Valbazen oral dewormer in the spring, and Ivermectin injectable in the fall.

I also asked him about a proper vaccination approach. He recommends the following for my cows that I keep to breed: Bovishield Gold FP 5 VL5 when cows are open, prior to breeding (or can use Virashield 6 with VL5 if already bred since its a killed vaccine), in addition to Cavalry 9 or Covexin 8. For young calves, he recommends the Bovishield Gold or Virashield 6 without the VL5.

We also talked loose minerals, because we all know the importance of that! And something else really neat that I knew about and have been wanting to do but forgot - We talked about taking a sample of liver once the next batch of cattle are processed and sending to be tested for copper and selenium levels. We live in a severely selenium deficient area, and this would give good indication if the herd is getting proper selenium and copper intake.

 

[ksmit454]

Safe-Guard label states "Parasite resistance may develop to any dewormer, and has been reported for most classes of dewormers."

Wow that is really interesting! I feel as if the cows look good and maintain their weight and overall good health, deworming is not going to do you much good.

 

[faster horses]

Met with my vet this morning for a herd health check and these are his recommendations for my area:

Pour on dewormers are great for external parasites. Injectible and oral are a better route for internal parasites. He recommends Safeguard oral or Valbazen oral dewormer in the spring, and Ivermectin injectable in the fall.

I also asked him about a proper vaccination approach. He recommends the following for my cows that I keep to breed: Bovishield Gold FP 5 VL5 when cows are open, prior to breeding (or can use Virashield 6 with VL5 if already bred since its a killed vaccine), in addition to Cavalry 9 or Covexin 8. For young calves, he recommends the Bovishield Gold or Virashield 6 without the VL5.

We also talked loose minerals, because we all know the importance of that! And something else really neat that I knew about and have been wanting to do but forgot - We talked about taking a sample of liver once the next batch of cattle are processed and sending to be tested for copper and selenium levels. We live in a severely selenium deficient area, and this would give good indication if the herd is getting proper selenium and copper intake.

I would say you are working with a very good vet.

 

[faster horses]

Wow that is really interesting! I feel as if the cows look good and maintain their weight and overall good health, deworming is not going to do you much good.

We were real doubters about deworming...for years. We did our own study. We dewormed the young cows at home and didn't do the older cows on a pasture we leased where the calves came off the cows heavy in the fall. That year the heifer's calves outweighed the older cows calves by 22 pounds!! That made a believer out of us. There is a right way and a wrong way to deworm. Read what kismit454's vet said. After working with producers for years, I agree with that. One thing about Valbazen, there is a window of time to use it, Safe-guard is safe all year long.
FWIW, I like ViraShield products. We used them for years. There was a resistance to killed vaccines back then but we stuck to our guns and used it. It worked well for us.

 

[Ebenezer]

Underdosing may result in ineffective treatment, and encourage the development of parasite resistance.

Parasite resistance may develop to any dewormer, and has been reported for most classes of dewormers. Treatment with a dewormer used in conjunction with parasite management practices appropriate to the geographic area and the animal(s) to be treated may slow the development of parasite resistance. Fecal examinations or other diagnostic tests and parasite management history should be used to determine if the product is appropriate for the herd, prior to the use of any dewormer. Following the use of any dewormer, effectiveness of treatment should be monitored (for example, with the use of a fecal egg count reduction test or another appropriate method). A decrease in a drug's effectiveness over time as calculated by fecal egg count reduction tests may indicate the development of resistance to the dewormer administered. Your parasite management plan should be adjusted accordingly based on regular monitoring.

Source: safeguard label

 

[faster horses]

Underdosing may result in ineffective treatment, and encourage the development of parasite resistance.

Parasite resistance may develop to any dewormer, and has been reported for most classes of dewormers. Treatment with a dewormer used in conjunction with parasite management practices appropriate to the geographic area and the animal(s) to be treated may slow the development of parasite resistance. Fecal examinations or other diagnostic tests and parasite management history should be used to determine if the product is appropriate for the herd, prior to the use of any dewormer. Following the use of any dewormer, effectiveness of treatment should be monitored (for example, with the use of a fecal egg count reduction test or another appropriate method). A decrease in a drug's effectiveness over time as calculated by fecal egg count reduction tests may indicate the development of resistance to the dewormer administered. Your parasite management plan should be adjusted accordingly based on regular monitoring.

Source: safeguard label

Customers who have dewormed with Safe-guard have cleaned up their pastures. We have a customer who is faithful about running fecals on his cows (sent to Dr. Don Bliss or Gene White, both parasite gurus) and he strategically deworms in the springs, as recommended. We have run fecals on his cattle in the fall and they are clean of worms (using the word 'clean' loosely here, but there was a very low evidence of worm load). So he didn't have to deworm in the fall. By doing it in the spring, he cleaned up his pastures. His calves were heavier, cows were in better condition, milked better, his herd health was excellent. Parasites lower the immune system so cattle are more suspectable to other illnesses.

This source substantiates what I said earlier "Calves and yearlings are the most likely classes of cattle to exhibit obvious signs of parasite infection.

Internal Parasites

Bob L. Larson, DVM, PhDBeef Cattle InstituteKansas State University Internal parasites (or worms) have historically been among the most serious health problems facing cattle. A number of types of i…

ksubci.org

 

[littletom]

We don't use any pour on. Give oral and inject.

 

[Travlr]

Vet is coming tomorrow so I'm going to ask him also. But you all here are so knowledgable so I wanted to ask! I usually deworm once a year, in the spring. I have done ivermectin pour on, then last year I did safeguard oral, and this year I was thinking of using Eprinex pour on (because I found 2 bottles at 35% off at my work!). Anyway, thoughts? Some say deworming is a waste of time, some say you can overdo deworming too. Thoughts on using Eprinex pour on this round? Not really sure what to look for as far as treatment goes if you don't really know what you're treating, ya know?

Deworming in the spring isn't as important as deworming in the fall after a good, hard freeze, but I've always wormed twice a year and my cattle stayed in great condition on less feed as a result. Why would anyone feed worms if they don't have to?

It's smart to switch products. Different dewormer in the fall than in the spring.

 

[Djm961]

I quit deworming a couple years ago. Just cull anything that looks wormy now and things seem to be going just fine.

 

[faster horses]

I quit deworming a couple years ago. Just cull anything that looks wormy now and things seem to be going just fine.

They might "look fine" but you are losing some performance in your cattle. There are things you can't see going on. But to each their own.

 

[pnw-farmer]

We don't use any pour on. Give oral and inject.

What oral dewormer do you use?

 

[Travlr]

I quit deworming a couple years ago. Just cull anything that looks wormy now and things seem to be going just fine.

That's a loser in every possible way I can imagine.

If it cost a buck to worm a cow and cattle are selling at a buck a pound then as long as your cow maintains more than a pound of condition you are money ahead by worming.

Not worming you are losing pounds, feeding more to maintain weight, and taking it in the shorts financially selling cattle that look wormy.

 

[Lucky_P]

We would deworm calves up to 2-yr old heifers nursing calves. After that... adult cows did not get dewormed.

Do some reading about emerging anthelminthic resistance and the need to preserve 'refugia'... you'll see that deworming the entire herd, whether they 'need' it or not, is not going to be sustainable going forward... there are really no new dewormers coming down the pike... once we select for populations of worms resistant to all 3 classes of dewormers... nothing's going to be effective.
Here's one for starters:

Rethinking deworming of beef cattle: The role of refugia in managing parasites - Country Folks

by Sally Colby Dr. Ray Kaplan, parasitologist and professor at the University of Georgia College of […]

countryfolks.com

The macrocyclic lactones (Ivermectin, moxidectin, doramectin, etc.) have been used so extensively for such a long time that some formerly-important nematode parasites are virtually extinct on many premises; I've not seen an adult cow significantly impacted by 'worms' in 30 years.... I think the last case of Type II Ostertagiasis that I saw at necropsy was back around 1992.

 

[Ebenezer]

We would deworm calves up to 2-yr old heifers nursing calves. After that... adult cows did not get dewormed.

Do some reading about emerging anthelminthic resistance and the need to preserve 'refugia'... you'll see that deworming the entire herd, whether they 'need' it or not, is not going to be sustainable going forward... there are really no new dewormers coming down the pike... once we select for populations of worms resistant to all 3 classes of dewormers... nothing's going to be effective.
Here's one for starters:

Rethinking deworming of beef cattle: The role of refugia in managing parasites - Country Folks

by Sally Colby Dr. Ray Kaplan, parasitologist and professor at the University of Georgia College of […]

countryfolks.com

The macrocyclic lactones (Ivermectin, moxidectin, doramectin, etc.) have been used so extensively for such a long time that some formerly-important nematode parasites are virtually extinct on many premises; I've not seen an adult cow significantly impacted by 'worms' in 30 years.... I think the last case of Type II Ostertagiasis that I saw at necropsy was back around 1992.

I've already tried to tell them. They know better.

 

[Lucky_P]

Yep. I know.
Look at goats... almost nothing works on Haemonchus anymore. Veterinarians must carry some of that blame because we mistakenly and erroneously recommended 'rotating' wormers when the Boer/meat goat thing exploded... which just speeds you down the road to selecting for resistance to everything.
That's kind of where it's heading for cattle parasites...
Fortunately for cattle folks, very few 'worms' will actually kill a cow.... goats and sheep, on the other hand...

 

[Djm961]

That's a loser in every possible way I can imagine.

If it cost a buck to worm a cow and cattle are selling at a buck a pound then as long as your cow maintains more than a pound of condition you are money ahead by worming.

Not worming you are losing pounds, feeding more to maintain weight, and taking it in the shorts financially selling cattle that look wormy.

I

Deworming in the spring isn't as important as deworming in the fall after a good, hard freeze, but I've always wormed twice a year and my cattle stayed in great condition on less feed as a result. Why would anyone feed worms if they don't have to?

It's smart to switch products. Different dewormer in the fall than in the spring.

Depends how you look at it. I personally think worming loses you more money. You're paying for something that kills soil biology and also let's insects build immunity to it. I run my business pretty simple. I don't over graze so worming isn't a big issue. If my cows can't make it happen on their own then there's a heifer from my good cows to replace them. Only thing I supply is loose mineral and basic vaccines.

 

[Travlr]

I

Depends how you look at it. I personally think worming loses you more money. You're paying for something that kills soil biology and also let's insects build immunity to it. I run my business pretty simple. I don't over graze so worming isn't a big issue. If my cows can't make it happen on their own then there's a heifer from my good cows to replace them. Only thing I supply is loose mineral and basic vaccines.

Yeah, I get the argument about creating resistant worms, but that's either gonna happen anyway or it's not because there are always people that never worm and those worms keep the gene pool susceptible to meds. As far as soil biology, that's the first time I've ever heard that. I suppose it could have some effect and I've always been inclined to keep my pastures free of chemicals too... but I'm inclined to believe that any kind of worming meds get diluted pretty heavily... and my pastures were productive. But I'll have to check that out. As far as vaccines... we can all agree that they are useful. Most of the diseases they prevent are deadly but infrequent. Worms are less deadly but pretty much everywhere. The diseases that kill affect profits... and so do worms that drop weight from cows and stunt calves. Worms can affect ability to breed, too. So yeah... it depends on how you look at it.

 

[libertygarden]

I have done ivermectin pour-on and also injectable. I trust the injection better.

Several of you have said that you don't deworm cows just calves. Why is that?

 

[Ebenezer]

I have done ivermectin pour-on and also injectable. I trust the injection better.

Several of you have said that you don't deworm cows just calves. Why is that?

To maintain a refugia population that has only been exposed to wormers 2 or 3 times.

And because of FECs. If they don't have worms they don't need worming.

 

[kenny thomas]

To maintain a refugia population that has only been exposed to wormers 2 or 3 times.

And because of FECs. If they don't have worms they don't need worming.

A question I have wondered about, do the cows not have worms or do they just not bother the cow? I normally don't worm cows after they are 2 year old unless they need it.