dehorning

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farm princess

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I am wondering if anyone has used a callicrate smart bander to remove the horns? We put one on a heifer and she got the band off somehow :eek: and was wondering how to keep the band on. Thanks!!! ;-)
 
farm princess":20erpt31 said:
I am wondering if anyone has used a callicrate smart bander to remove the horns? We put one on a heifer and she got the band off somehow :eek: and was wondering how to keep the band on. Thanks!!! ;-)
I am not familiar with this rig, but I tried banding years ago. It worked, but the problem was that before the horn would come off, it would get very sensitive and if anything touched it, another cow, feed stanchion, whatever, you could tell it hurt them a lot. So I never used them again. I would go with burn, scoop, cut, or saw. I know it may not sound logical, but I don't believe these methods bother them near as much.

But again, what you are using may be entirely different from my ancient experience.
 
farm princess":6cx32mkl said:
I am wondering if anyone has used a callicrate smart bander to remove the horns? We put one on a heifer and she got the band off somehow :eek: and was wondering how to keep the band on. Thanks!!! ;-)

I agree with Ryder plus a few additional comments.

Sometimes doing things the "easy" way may work for the owner and it may do the job - but it is harder on the animal.

Depending on the size of the horn, you can do some damage as well - there is a lot of meat inside a big horn. You're going to hurt the animal - it will cost you gain and it may cost you in additional meds if it gets infected

Do it right and it is done and over.

Lots of info here - do a search.

If you are not prepared to do the job in a humane manner call in a veterinarian - cheap and really the way for a newbie.

Just because it works does not make it humane and does not make it the right way to get the job done. Seen a lot of hacks and I have fixed a lot in my day.

I have the abillity to surgically remove your hand and make it quite painless. I can do the same job on your hand with a bander. Should it be necessary for me to remove your hand which method would you prefer me to use?

If you do not know what you are doing - DO NOT DO IT!

Recommend you do not use this method.

Bez!
 
farm princess":z0f0skim said:
I am wondering if anyone has used a callicrate smart bander to remove the horns? We put one on a heifer and she got the band off somehow :eek: and was wondering how to keep the band on. Thanks!!! ;-)

Why would you want to extend a month's worth of hurting into 2 or maybe 3 months? If you're not able to do the job, take her to the vet, have her dehorned, and let her get on with healing. Part of the responsibility of being an animal owner is to NOT inflict undue pain and suffering, which banding a horn will do.
 
Here is an old post I did on de-horning:

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Alright - your first two cows and probably pets - so try this on for size.

You can just then fatten him and send him - horns and all to the butcher - just stay out of his way.

Chopping will be a prob - too big. Scoops work but they are not always the best way for a newbie to start out. As for horse equipment - I stay away from it.

So - you wanna' do this and still be able to catch them up in the yard?

Place the animal in the squeeze.

Rope the nose and pull it off to the side - that will cause the head to naturally be placed in the correct position for the procedure I am about to explain.

Trim the long hair around the base of the horn with a pair of scissors or a clipper. This is the horn that is now sticking up in the air.

Now, using the wire saw you purchased at your local feed store / vet supplies store - saw it off. Ask them for it - they will know what it is. The directions on using are usually written on a piece of paper in the boxand easily followed. Be sure to get close to the head and start sawing. These wire saws are cheap like borscht - so do not worry about the cost - the last one I bought came to a total of almost 4 bucks - handles and all.

The closer to the head the better. If you cut the horn off too long, it is very difficult to get the bleeding to stop - even if you burn it. There are physical reasons for this that I will not go into, so just trust me on this.

When you are finished - you may have a hole through the top of the head that leads into the sinus - for the moment do not worry about that.

Using a pair of tweezers or a hemostat, hunt around the edge of the cut area - when you dig a bit - you will find the ends of small veins - grab them and pull them out - this will stop almost all of the bleeding. If you look closely you WILL find them. There will be a fair amount of bleeding initially which is why I pull out the small veins. Takes only a few seconds to do.

Now that you have completed this operation, you can take a burner - which you just happen to have handy - and rub it around the cut edges of the operation turn the skin black and cripsy - keep the burner moving so you do not fry the head. Make sure you also burn the cut edges of the horn to kill it. It can be a bit smokey when you do this - suck it up if you do not like the smell, because it really does not last long.

Now it is time to turn the head over and do the other side.

In all honesty I usually cut them both off - pull the veins and then let the head lose - and then burn both sides.

Do not be surprised if the animal goes down - just get on with it.

If you want to make it painless you can always inject about 8 cc's of lidocaine around the base of each horn - several locations - about 2 cc's per shot. Keeps them quiet and they will simply stand there while the operation is being completed.

Now for the sinus hole.

All I do is puncture the membrane and leave it. The hole closes in about a month.

I generally give the "keepers" a shot of Pen LA in event of infection.

Give them a good shot of fly repellant and allow them to find a nice dark spot to sulk for a few days. I just throw ours in the bush. But you may want to put them in a barn.

Flies can be a prob, but this procedure keeps the blood down to a minimum and therefore reduces the fly attractions. Believe me we get lots of them here - so pick a time when the weather looks like it will be cloudy and cool for a few days.

If all else fails, call the vet and have him or a neighbour do it - for the newbie who has never been here, that is probably the best way. Watch and learn - then you can do it on your own the next time.

Using the above procedure - not including the lidocaine, I would estimate I could do them both in under 6 minutes total time - you will probably take at least 30 due to inexperience and timidity. No offense please - just being realistic.

A straight gouge and scoop should be done when the horns are about one inch long - fast - easy and a bit bloody. I would probably not go this route with yours.

Do not - repeat - do not use a power saw - it makes them totally crazy!

Any more questions give me a shout.

Bez!
 
Here is another:
--------------------------

Bama - Do it my way all day - you can run a lot through the chute - and none will likely get sick.

Remember the bigger they are the more important technique is. The little guys are easy - it is the big ones you gotta' do right.

Throw them out on pasture when you are done - remember - things are done this way to reduce the set back.

Just knocking them off like some folks talk about - I can do that as well - sets them back more than a day or two. It is a money game. A few pounds times a couple hundred head times four days.

If I placed 500 / 1000 / 2000 bucks on the ground outside your front door - would you stoop and pick it up?

No difference here either.

The more it hurts them and the longer you take to do it - the more money you lose.

I catch folks using ANY power tools when I am the lead hand - I tend to throw them AND the tools in the water trough if they will not put them away when I politely ask. I only ask once. This is one area when speed can actually cost you money.

Quiet is best as anyone who works animals will know.

Lazy, unprofessional and highly unethical in my mind. Yup - you who disagree can take a long hike.

I am big enough to do it. Last person to try was as big as me - I took him down with a cane to his legs first. That REALLY surprized him. Hurt him pretty bad as well.

Only a couple of years ago. At 49 then he thought of me as an old man - which in fact I am.

He went in the tub along with his tools.

When I am not the lead hand and the tools come out I tend to leave - right quick.

Just because they are cattle does not mean they need to be treated like schitzen. I can do it fast, humane and fairly bloodless - and generally speaking - unless you have really good infrastructure and an excellent catch crew - the folks running cattle up the chute for me will never be kept waiting for much longer than it takes for them to catch their breather

Not burning like you mentioned is not that big a deal, but it will really prevent a lot of possible complications.



Note**

Bama - most comments above addressed to general population - not you specifically.


To all who are stuck reading my lecture**

In the end it is a money game - do little harm and they recover faster - then they start gaining again. A delay of one day costs you - are you ready to give up a days gain?

How about losing a weeks gain from someone who does a lousy job?

14 pounds min gain on grass for one week times how many head? It adds up fast.

My personal thoughts have swiped the direction of this thread - as usual. Apologies to all.

Have a good one,

Bez!
 
Now that you have read - I hope - these posts you might try a search. There are many others who are knowledgeable and have put some good info out there.

All we raise are horned animals - so we know horns.

You got a question, I might be able to help - if not I know a couple who are watching here - they are far better at this game than I am - they will jump in if I steer you wrong.

Regards,

Bez!
 
teletigger":3k8nh3g7 said:
Thank you for that Bez. Wonderfully descriptive and realistic. I was standing beside you watching. :shock: It will move many towards polled cattle, including me. :oops:
regards

You can scoff, make fun, and be sarcastic all you want to - the fact of the matter is dehorning is a part of raising cattle. Learn how to do it so the cattle don't suffer and you'll be miles ahead of the game.
 
Hi teletigger

To dismiss an animal because it has horns keeps you from using more than 50% of the bovine genetics available in this world.

If you learn the process you are not limited to what is available.

Might be something to consider.

Regards,

Bez!
 
Would it work to put a groove in the base of the horn, then put the band in that groove to hold it on?

Or duct tape around the band?

im not condoning this as a good idea though................
 
RebelCritter":2jhzlepn said:
Would it work to put a groove in the base of the horn, then put the band in that groove to hold it on?

Or duct tape around the band?

im not condoning this as a good idea though................

That's the way it's recommended to be done then taped with 200 mph tape over the band. That said, I saw it done to goats many years ago, had be one of the cruelest forms of pain infliction I've ever seen

dun
 
O-K after reading the replies especially Bez's (thank you for time) I am not going to use this method--I will call someone to show me the proper way to do it with less hurt and go from there.

Just want you all to know, I treat my cows good and would never knowingly cause such pain. I just needed some help so i could convince my husband that even though it says it is for banding and dehorning doesn't mean you have to use it for both!!
P.S. I got in this business because father-in-law was in bad vehicle accident 1 year ago and husband took over completely on the farm work and I took the cows! so I still have alot to learn and I thank goodness that I found this site and people like you!!!! :heart:
;-)
 
teletigger":1ydbp3ul said:
msscamp":1ydbp3ul said:
teletigger":1ydbp3ul said:
Thank you for that Bez. Wonderfully descriptive and realistic. I was standing beside you watching. :shock: It will move many towards polled cattle, including me. :oops:
regards

You can scoff, make fun, and be sarcastic all you want to - the fact of the matter is dehorning is a part of raising cattle. Learn how to do it so the cattle don't suffer and you'll be miles ahead of the game.
Well.......you got the wrong end of the rattler there. There was no sarcasm intended there at all. I think Bez described a difficult and (if you breed horned cattle) necessary procedure, very clearly.
Something not to be undertaken lightly. Better to know the real difficulty of the task, before deciding which way to go.
If I came across as sarcastic , you have my sincerest apologies.
I'll tread these boards more lightly in future 8)
regards

Yes, he did. Thank you for clarifying and, although I appreciate your apology, it is not necessary. You are the one who is due an apology and I am sorry for misreading, misunderstanding, and responding in the way I did. :oops:
 
We've never dehorned with the bands on calves. But......our daughters 4H goat was done this way, small groove around the base of the horn, and the band put on. About a month later one horn fell off..........and the holes in his head became infected.....3 days of antibiotics got him over that, with a good amount of weight loss durin that time......picked a lil weight back up and 2 weeks later the other horn fell off.....and got infected......3 more days worth of antibiotics and he'd lost just about all his weight. This years goat looked horrible, she just showed him Monday at the fair, and didnt do well at all. We didnt expect her to place. She showed him awsome, he just looked bad. So my answer to that kinda dehornin is........NEVER AGAIN!!!!! ( our breeder we buy from did it) But I'm thinkin if goats do it, calves would too.
 

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