Cutting bull calfs

[highgrit]

Big Cheese, that's exactly what we do for vaccines. A implant is a growth hormone-steroid and they seem to work. We work our cattle 4+ times a year.
Lucky_P, The bulls I leave intact seem like they don't do as good as our steers. The young bulls seem to keep everything moving and don't seem to eat like they should. And then if a cow comes into heat the young bulls give them heck trying to breed them.

 

[Lucky_P]

BC,
Implants are growth-promoting agents which - in cattle on an adequate to excellent plane of nutrition - improve ADG, feed efficiency and utilization, while promoting muscle(lean meat) development over fat deposition. Some are hormones or hormone-like in their chemical structure. Most have similar actions - promoting release of growth hormone from the pituitary; some may also have an effect on thyroid hormone and insulin levels in the implanted animal.
Probably the most widely used growth-promoting implant is Ralgro; it is zeranol, a non-steroidal estrogen agonist, derived from zearalenone, a mycotoxin produced by a fungus growing on corn. Zeranol - while NOT a steroid or hormone - has estrogen-like activity and appears to exert its effect by stimulating release of GH-releasing hormone from the hypothalamic region of the brain.

So...we remove the anabolic activity of testosterone produced in the testicles by castrating the bulls, and replace that anabolic activity with a subcutaneous implant releasing the specific anabolic agent over an extended period, to improve ADG, lean muscle growth, etc.

Much has been written about the safety of implants,with regard to consumption of meat from implanted animals - and it's often (incorrectly) incriminated as a cause of early puberty in girls, increased (recognition/diagnosis of) breast cancer, etc. But...analysis of meat from implanted steers contains many magnitudes less estrogenic activity than does meat from intact heifers, cull cows - and thousands of times less estrogenic activity than peas/beans, cabbage, etc.

 

[Angus Cowman]

It just seems like a lot more work to me having to do all of this when you can just band it and be done.

I can cut a calf faster than you can band one especially if it is less than 250lbs
Grab him throw him down cut his sack off and pull the nuts out
He will be back up on hus feet while you are still trying to get the band on the one your doing
On large calves I can cut them as fast as the guys are giving shots

 

[dun]

For us it depends on the fly situation when we work them in the spring. Bad flys band, no flys cut. We quit using the cheerio banders a couple of years ago. We had a bunch of calves that were so fat at a month of age we couldn;t get the scrotum and both nuts pushed through the little opening. Went to the tri-bander and haven;t had any issues since.

 

[talltimber]

I've been waiting until they're around two months or so and give them their first round of shots, virashield and covexin (recommended to wait until they were two months by vet), then cut and give the second round in 4-6 weeks later. If I could, I might try their first round earlier, to move schedule up, and cut when they are a little younger, but I'm gonna stick with Doc on this one I guess.

I had one calf this time that really took it hard. Took him until sometime the second night to suck, and laid up in the brush for a few days before he came back to the trough. The rest were there, although slow moving, the day after cutting.

Fortunately, I haven't lost any. I've cut a lot of calves over the years for Dad and Papaw. I've always been concerned about them, and thought that I (they) had never lost one. I was talking to Dad about it last year on my first set of calves and he told me they had lost a few, that I was never told about I guess. Don't know if I had cut them or they did, but they did lose a couple back then. I'm pretty sure they didn't give a first round of tetanus before cutting. I think they were blacklegging and maybe giving tetanus the day of.

 

[talltimber]

To continue this thread, and it may make it easier for someone doing a search later idk, I have a steer that's having a little trouble. The same calf mentioned earlier. He's dull haired, but looks like he feels good and holds his own at the feed bunk. His bag is infected I think, as it's showing some pus oosing out the bottom of the bag, but draining. I got him up yesterday and gave him some LA200 and used the syringe, needle-less, and flushed the bag out with clean water, lacking the knowledge of what would have been better to use. I had thought I would use an iodine mix, but read on the bottle to not use on deep wounds, so I didn't want to do that. I sprayed some blue lotion on it, was all I had that I thought might do anything to help. I had some blood stop but really didn't think that would be the thing to do. Thought it might actually seal up the bag and I don't believe that is what should be happening right now. I tried squeezing the bag some but couldn't force much more pus out of it, although the bag area was firm and swelled. I did not try to cut up into the tissue with a blade, thinking that it may be some swelled tissue, that would bleed, instead of a pus pocket. Any thoughts?

 

[Tim/South]

How was this calf cut? Do you pull the cords or cut them?
We do not leave any cord (Vas Deferens). It is hard to offer advice with out seeing the area or knowing the procedure.
We always cut the scrotum down low to allow drainage. I would be a little concerned that the infection was higher up and not in the scrotum itself, just draining down and visible.
If he is doing better then he may be over the hump.

 

[Quigly]

Take a temp on him, if he is running a fever it would be more concerning, but LA200 is a decent approach. Keep an eye on him, it will take time but I would wager he is going to improve for you.

 

[talltimber]

First, I feel the bag for two and for any mud/manure/anything on the outside of the bag that could get on my knife and infect them. If they are dirty, I'll wash them off with some Iodine/soap solution. I cut off the lower portion of the entire bag, pull each nut with cord separately. There are times that there is a certain amount of "tissue" hanging out of the bag opening, not always. I have tried to cut it off even with the bottom of the bag before but i won't try that again, they bleed pretty bad with that. (I mention that because I'm wondering if anyone else has that occasionally and what they do in that case). If there is some cord that don't pull out with the nuts, I'll pull it taut and fray it in two with a dullish knife. I'll fray it as high as I can with it under tension. Both knives are pitched in a container of hot iodine/soap solution between calves. I change surgical gloves after each calf. After I get done, I'll put a palm full of blood stop powder and hold it up into/onto the bag opening for about 20 seconds or so. They get their second round of shots at the same time, including covexin 8 tetanus toxoid. This is the process that I was taught as a kid, and what my folks have done for as long as I can remember. If there is a better, safer way I'm sure willing to try it.

I have just been reading some others recommendations for a temp as a general troubleshooting tool. I have not developed that habit yet, as I didn't think to do that the other day until after I had turned him out. We had a little trouble getting him drove in the barn and I figured we had stressed him enough. We didn't try to get him back in to temp. If I have to get him up again, I'll do that.

 

[Tim/South]

Your cutting procedure sounds fine to me.
With the bag cut at the bottom it should be able to drain well if there was some hemorrhaging.