Culling

[coachg]

If you want to knock angus you better drive down to Molino Fl right outside Atmore Al and see what Gizmom and her husband are doing with black cows in the heat.

 

[gizmom]

Thanks coach for the kind words, it is always nice to meet folks that we chat with here on CT. Heat is a major factor for us here in Florida, it is hard on the cattle, but it's hard on all of them not just the black ones. We have had cattle that just didn't work in the heat but have culled out those lines over the years. We have to have cattle that slick off in the Summer. Our farm was a row crop operation for awhile (prior to us) because of that we don't have a lot of trees we have planted trees but they are not to the stage of offering much shade as yet. We have shade screens built on skids that we move from pasture to pasture in the Summer. The cows do gather under the screens in the heat of the day they aren't stupid heck it's hot! The point I am trying to make is that you have to have cattle that are environmentally adapted to work in your individual environment. Thommoos we aren't all that far apart as far as our environment, our black cattle do just fine with the heat and humidity, but we have been selecting for heat tolerance from day one. The cattle business is not a sprint it's a marathon, it takes years to develop a herd, heck if your not looking for ways to improve then it's time to hang up your Spurs. The boss and I spend countless hours discussing strengths and weaknesses within our herd then try to address the weakness without sacrificing the strength. I hope you find what your looking for as your perfect cow, I am a blessed woman I feel I have the right breed I am still striving for the perfect cow!

Your only about 100 miles north from us if you ever get the opportunity give us a call and come visit. Coach will tell you when I start talking cows I tend to get a bit excited, even after all these years I am passionate about the cattle.
Gizmom

 

[thommoos]

Have you considered a different bull instead of switching cows? Maybe Hereford, or even going straight Beefmaster?

Actually I was breeding Beefmaster for a while, had what i thought at the time was good genetics ( i found out with knowledge I was chasing the latest and greatest).

I'd find a good beefy red gelbvieh bull, some matings just don't click..but In your case id rather have a average beefmaster cow than a good angus....

that is my next step, I really like what my Black gelvy has done with the heifers I keeping. I do want to move to a Red.

Thommoos we aren't all that far apart as far as our environment, our black cattle do just fine with the heat and humidity, but we have been selecting for heat tolerance from day one. The cattle business is not a sprint it's a marathon, it takes years to develop a herd, heck if your not looking for ways to improve then it's time to hang up your Spurs. The boss and I spend countless hours discussing strengths and weaknesses within our herd then try to address the weakness without sacrificing the strength. I hope you find what your looking for as your perfect cow, I am a blessed woman I feel I have the right breed I am still striving for the perfect cow!

Your only about 100 miles north from us if you ever get the opportunity give us a call and come visit. Coach will tell you when I start talking cows I tend to get a bit excited, even after all these years I am passionate about the cattle.
Gizmom

I had some Angus for a while, If I had some water for the to cool off in I would actually seriously consider them, but I don't. It was funny seeing Beefmaster in one field eating while Angus in the other in the pond or under trees. The ones i had were not bad but the heat anb no water.

Thommoos, your situation sounds similar to mine. Have you considered AI? You could pick different bulls to use. I bought semen from two different LBAR 5502's sons and used on a couple different cows. Hope to see improvement this year. I too have culled this year and bought some replacement heifers. I replaced my beefmaster culls with beefmasters. The breeders I know chase names and think I am crazy using LBAR genetics. I had to get away from those people. From my research, though, I believe LBAR is more my kind of cattle. The reason I went with 5502 line is his performance and his son's performance.

I have thought about going back to doing some, equipment set up time etc play into that for me.
Thanks for the input.

 

[cotton1]

Thommoos-I think it is good for you to cull out poor performers. It seems kinda extreme to leave your breed after 10 years, but hey-to each his own. I would like to make a plug here for my breed of choice-Charolais. There are quite a few breeders in the Alabama/Mississippi area that have cattle that have been adapted to the heat and humidity we have here in the south. My Charolais work well for me. Many people have an old fashioned idea about calving ease and the Charolais breed. The EPDs have changed that over the last 25 years or so. Breeders have made effort to breed toward easy calving, and it is paying off. My latest group of calves over the last couple of weeks are weighing 70- low 80lb range. As always, you must use the tools (EPD and Accuracy) when making selections. The cattle I have purchased in that neck of the woods have dealt with the high heat summers we get very well. I will have to say that they require some more management for flys than any brimmer type influence. Had a friend use one of my bulls on his brimmers one summer and the bull got all of the flys it looked like. The resulting calves were impressive.

Just curious what areas of performance the cull cattle were lacking in? What were your expectations compared to performance? Are there other blood lines of Beefmaster that would improve those areas?

 

[True Grit Farms]

The one real negative I see with Charolais is bull sales. At every bull evaluation test sale I've been to the Charolais bulls sold at or very close to the bottom. Why is beyond me?

 

[JMJ Farms]

The one real negative I see with Charolais is bull sales. At every bull evaluation test sale I've been to the Charolais bulls sold at or very close to the bottom. Why is beyond me?

My understanding is that they don't marble quite as good as angus or hereford. However I have one charolais bull and his calves weaning weights more than compensate for the difference in price. Depending on the market, the charolais cross calves usually bring close to the same $/pound here, which equals more per head. In a cheap market they tend to get docked more.

 

[wacocowboy]

Unless you go with F1 Tigers or F1 Brangus not going to get more Brahma than what is in Beefmaster. I have Beefmaster mommas and I like them. Having said that there are some bloodlines I am not wild about. I prefer the Lasater, and L-Bar genetics they seem like meatier animals. I look for animals going back to L-Bar 5502 they seem to raise good calves. I wouldn't switch my mommas but I would go to a heavier Beefmaster bull or Char and Beefmaster is a really good cross. I used a Hereford bull on Beefmaster cows and got real good results. If you want a good Beefmaster bull I would go to the Texoma sale in McAlester Ok on March 19th. If you call Derek you can probably get the bull shipped to you so don't have to haul it.

Finding L-bar genetics down here is about impossible. its all about who can push the latest and greatest. kinda why I left BBU, Good breeders like Buster just are not that common around here.

Yes there are a lot of breeders chasing out there. I have a bunch of the chasers around me. Lucky I have some good ones around like the Frenzels. Buster is a solid breeder wish he was closer to me. Larry Lairmore is in Arkansas he has Double L a son of 5502 who is a solid producer. If I was you I would AI to bulls like Double L and Buster 260. You could keep the heifers from your better cows cull out the cows who don't produce what you want and build up a herd of solid producers. Then buy a bull from Texoma, Beef on Forage or ISA bull sale.

 

[True Grit Farms]

My understanding is that they don't marble quite as good as angus or hereford. However I have one charolais bull and his calves weaning weights more than compensate for the difference in price. Depending on the market, the charolais cross calves usually bring close to the same $/pound here, which equals more per head. In a cheap market they tend to get docked more.[/quote]

Well you bring up a valid point, but I have a question or two. The first one is, how much more money does a 600lb calf bring compared to a 500lb calf? In my experience there's very little dollar wise. The next is how many extra days will it take for an Angus or Hereford calf to make up the weight difference? At a gain of 2lbs at day it shouldn't take long. And my final question is, when you run 2 different breeds of bulls in the same herd how do you end up with a like size group of calves? Everyone always wants there calves to look like peas in a pod.

 

[JMJ Farms]

My understanding is that they don't marble quite as good as angus or hereford. However I have one charolais bull and his calves weaning weights more than compensate for the difference in price. Depending on the market, the charolais cross calves usually bring close to the same $/pound here, which equals more per head. In a cheap market they tend to get docked more.

Well you bring up a valid point, but I have a question or two. The first one is, how much more money does a 600lb calf bring compared to a 500lb calf? In my experience there's very little dollar wise. The next is how many extra days will it take for an Angus or Hereford calf to make up the weight difference? At a gain of 2lbs at day it shouldn't take long. And my final question is, when you run 2 different breeds of bulls in the same herd how do you end up with a like size group of calves? Everyone always wants there calves to look like peas in a pod.

Hey there True Grit,

1) not much, usually around $50-125. So for the sake of average I'm gonna say $75-80 more total dollars for a $600 calf. Sometimes this isn't the case at all. May be only $10.00 total price difference.

2) IMO, most angus/hereford type calves will need 45-60 more days to catch the charolais cross calves in weight depending on the bull and also how good of a momma cow you have. This is an estimate, as I've never put a pencil on it. I'm not promoting charolais by any means, I just think they make up in weight what they lose for color or marbling or whatever.

3) I run the charolais with one herd. And the hereford with a different herd on seperate farms. Not to be a smarta$$ but I've pretty much come to grips with the fact I'm gonna probably always have to sell at a local sale barn and not ever have enough momma cows to sell pot loads. So uniformity doesn't matter as much for me. Don't get me wrong, I am still slowly tightening my calving season and culling cows trying to get more uniformity, but my main goal right now is trying to improve my genetics and make sure that my cows are breeding on schedule, calving every 10-12 months, milking good, maintaining condition in my environment, and so forth. Keeping the easy keepers and the fastest breeders. I only have about 60 momma cows, so I usually try to sell about 3 times a year. That gives me (on average) 1 load of about 25 and 2 loads of around 15 (saving my best 5 heifers) that are fairly uniform, a pretty constant cash flow, and I also decrease my chances of hitting "one" bad week for prices. Kinda averages everything out. It's just kinda what works for me.

TG, from the looks of your calves, your plan is working pretty good. They look dang good to me.

One more thing about uniformity. I like uniformity. But it takes time and sometimes the amount of effort required on a small operation like mine is not feasible. So rather than convert from year round calving to a controlled breeding season, I've got a four year plan. (Trying to do it slowly so I don't miss many calves) The end result I'm shooting for is a 60 day spring calving season and 45 day fall calving season. I hope I like the end result.

Hope this answers your question. Every now and again I have trouble expressing clearly with words what my mind is thinking. Plus I took an oxycodone (and it ain't helped at all) about an hour ago and I ain't used to the side effects. Lol

 

[thommoos]

It seems kinda extreme to leave your breed after 10 years, but hey-to each his own. I would like to make a plug here for my breed of choice-Charolais. There are quite a few breeders in the Alabama/Mississippi area that have cattle that have been adapted to the heat and humidity we have here in the south. My Charolais work well for me. Many people have an old fashioned idea about calving ease and the Charolais breed.
Just curious what areas of performance the cull cattle were lacking in? What were your expectations compared to performance? Are there other blood lines of Beefmaster that would improve those areas?

1st and foremost calving in one year, this one I'm culling next week, she has for the last 3 years calved at 14 months, gave her a break 2 years ago. 2nd wean weights i culled one that averaged less than 2 lbs (1.75)a day while the others were above 2 lbs. and the one going next week also 1.5 a day.

though I am not really leaving just not active in the breed association any more. When you really tried to judge animal in the Southeast by epd's, breeders were not and are not documenting their performance . I ran a Bull through the Auburn bull test some years ago, he was the only one that fit the age group, he was just a bull, nothing special to me breeding wise, he placed 4th overall. But that did not matter at the breeder sales it was about looks and name. Could not get a decent price for his offspring with a performance tested Bull.

 

[JMJ Farms]

When you really tried to judge animal in the Southeast by epd's, breeders were not and are not documenting their performance .

I've ran into that a lot too. Last bull I bought last spring I bought based on actual birthweight, looks of both parents, and the owners word (he has been a breeder for 40+ years so I figured he didn't stay in business that long in a small rural community without being pretty honest). I looked at the EPDs but the accuracies were all less than 10%. Also bought him based on the fact that he had always been on 100% forage since birth! other than a few cubes to call them up.