culling open cattle

[xbred]

say that breeding season is over...a nice 4yr. old cow that has had 2 calves is still open.. cull her???...say she weighs 1350 and you scale her for $55 = $742.00- fees = $700.00..put that cash in your wife's pocketbook (that money is gone for sure)...or find a good bred 4yr. old for 1100.00-1200... you've spent $4-$500 for the calf to come so that's losing calf...well, we could all come up with scenairos where you loose or come out ahead, it's all a crap shoot,,i guess my question is, when do you, or have you, kept a "good" cow that didn't breed on time? why? why not?? i kept a "good one" as a heifer and she was 6 mths. behind the others..eventually I held her out to catch up so now she is a calf behind, but i'm not sure i would have bought anything better.. it will be a different story when i keep replacements...she'll go and my wife will still get the money...

 

[Angus Cowman]

all depends on your situation I cull every open cow whether she has had one calf or 4 there is a reason for them being open the only thing I do is I keep them and breed them for a spring calf and sell them bred but I have a good market for spring bred cows I preg check in march and re breed in april so not much of a wait to rebreed

 

[1982vett]

For myself, it would depend somewhat on what her first two calves looked like. If she did good with them that would buy her some points to the keep her side where two raising two knotheads would win her a cruise to town. Then I'd consider what costs I already have in her, what I'm going to salvage from her and compare that to the cost of replacing her. But if I had that cow today, and I have two that recently lost their calves, I'm still plan to keeping them a while longer, cause around here you wouldn't get $.55 cents for her. Top price yesterday was about $.41 so that would leave you $200 to feed her the winter and hope for better prices in the spring (trouble is you are not guaranteed better prices in the spring). By then, I would hope she would be 4 - 5 months bred.

As for my two, one is old and should have already been sold, the other is younger but this is not her first disaster. Rainfall in the near future will dictate how soon they become hamburger. Holding out for prices to recover at least a little bit.

 

[LoveMoo11]

As a businessperson, it makes sense to cull her, if she had the opportunity to be bred and wasn't. But, prices suck right now, especially for cows. At the local auction up here last week they had Angus cows going for $300..just about everyone ended up bringing their cows back home with them. I guess it depends on your view of her as a cow and if you think she will be productive in the future, and what you have available for feed.

 

[hillsdown]

put that cash in your wife's pocketbook (that money is gone for sure)...

I am sorry is this a new analogy or am I missing something. :roll:

BTW prices are down and still dropping , sell now or hold on for a long time if you have enough feed. If I had any opens this year they would be gone, gone, gone.

 

[SRBeef]

say that breeding season is over...a nice 4yr. old cow that has had 2 calves is still open.. cull her???...say she weighs 1350 and you scale her for $55 = $742.00- fees = $700.00..put that cash in your wife's pocketbook (that money is gone for sure)...or find a good bred 4yr. old for 1100.00-1200... you've spent $4-$500 for the calf to come so that's losing calf...well, we could all come up with scenairos where you loose or come out ahead, it's all a crap shoot,,i guess my question is, when do you, or have you, kept a "good" cow that didn't breed on time? why? why not?? i kept a "good one" as a heifer and she was 6 mths. behind the others..eventually I held her out to catch up so now she is a calf behind, but i'm not sure i would have bought anything better.. it will be a different story when i keep replacements...she'll go and my wife will still get the money...

I just went through the same situation. I have a very nice first calf cow (now about 32 months old) that had an excellent calf this spring. I put the bull in around July 4th and on Nov 1 the vet says she's "open" - the only one of the bunch. I have a not nearly as nice looking but similar age cow that also had a nice calf last spring that I was going to cull that I flip flopped on and retained since I need a certain number of calves next year.

What are the options for an open cow? As I compared them:

1 - hold her open and lose a complete year and calf plus expense of feeding her for 1-1/2 years before I (maybe) see another calf from her

2 - hope she gets bred now but will be 4-5 months out of sync with the rest of the herd, late weaning calf, late everything.

3 - sell her now (40 cents a pound?)

4 - sell her as bred cow in the spring - if she gets bred, if not now 38 month animal with no calf

5 - take her to the processor with the others and put her in the family freezer - 32 month is not bad beef so I'm told

6- figure the vet was wrong and cross your fingers come next April. Others were all 80-110 days pregnant.

My neighbor really likes this cow and said she probably aborted and suggested I give her another chance. She's been exposed to my bull continuously since early July....but no signs of heat I've seen.

It's not an easy call. Trying to run a business.

One of those things you make up your mind and follow through. We will make mistakes some times. Don't look back, concentrate on improving the others in your herd. jmho. Good Luck.

 

[KNERSIE]

6- figure the vet was wrong and cross your fingers come next April. Others were all 80-110 days pregnant.

My neighbor really likes this cow and said she probably aborted and suggested I give her another chance. She's been exposed to my bull continuously since early July....but no signs of heat I've seen.

It's not an easy call. Trying to run a business.

At that time its very easy to make a mistake palpating, if you like her that much wait a few weeks and have her palpated again. If she is still open or so short bred that she'll be completely out of season then you can decide to cull her. I cull all opens, regardless of who they are, it has served me well in the long run, but I know its alot harder when you're still in the building stage.

 

[dun]

The year that most herds were running around 50% opens, we ran around 15%. We kept over the cows that had the best track record and they all settled the following year. Usually we just ship them but that year was strange because of the timing of a heat wave. This year we had a couple of thin cows that came up open so we turned them in with the bull and in the spring we'll sell them as 2nd stage cows. We have the grass so that's not a problem. Every year is different, no one size fits all deal will work.
Granny (19 next spring) was open as an 8 year old but we held her over and bred her the next year. She hadn;t missed a calf before or since. I just wish she give us some daughters so we can preserve the longevity that she brings to the table.

 

[angus9259]

Granny (19 next spring) was open as an 8 year old but we held her over and bred her the next year. She hadn;t missed a calf before or since. I just wish she give us some daughters so we can preserve the longevity that she brings to the table.

I always cull anything open that isn't contributing genetically to the herd. I give things a second chance that will.

Had 2 of 30 open this year. Kept 1 shipped the other.

 

[Alberta farmer]

We made the decision a long time ago that any cow that was open, calved late, didn't have a calf that pushed down the scales, or didn't wean a calf...got a one way ticket to MacDonalds! No exceptions.
Now occasionally I've wanted to keep a pet or two but my son just won't tolerate it. In his words "These cows are working for me, not the other way around!"
No matter how good you might think a cow is there is always a better one right around the corner?

 

[jcarkie]

i ship them unless it is something i did wrong, i sprayed a cow one year and it made her sick(allergic i guess), she didn't breed back and i let her move to the next group(spring) she has never missed or been late since just weaned her 5th calf. 2nd calf & older cows go down the road.
if a 1st calf heifer doesn't breed back and raises a good calf i will let her go the next group(we calve spring and fall). they are six months late but i can't raise a replacement that cheap.

 

[bandit80]

6- figure the vet was wrong and cross your fingers come next April. Others were all 80-110 days pregnant.

My neighbor really likes this cow and said she probably aborted and suggested I give her another chance. She's been exposed to my bull continuously since early July....but no signs of heat I've seen.

It's not an easy call. Trying to run a business.

At that time its very easy to make a mistake palpating, if you like her that much wait a few weeks and have her palpated again. If she is still open or so short bred that she'll be completely out of season then you can decide to cull her. I cull all opens, regardless of who they are, it has served me well in the long run, but I know its alot harder when you're still in the building stage.

I started culling relentlessly about 5 years ago. About when I graduated college, and I can see the improvement and changes in my herd since then.

I used to keep a cow if she lost a calf in the spring due to bad weather, etc. Anymore, lose your calf, you get shipped. Come up open, you get shipped. Survival of the fittest IMO.

 

[yme]

I calve spring and fall so anything that didn't have a calf this fall gets preg checked and if she is breed she goes to the spring head, if open she goes to town. I would love to just go to a fall herd but ever year I move a few head from group to group and I only lose 6 months so I'm stuck with spring and fall. They only get one move, if it happens again they go even if they are bred.

 

[Limomike]

I would not ship a 4 yr old cow if she is open, or missed her breeding. I usually give her another year, and see if she does the next year. Only shipped one cow that didnt breed, and she was a 15 yr old that missed two years. I got a 16 yr old 1400# tiger stripe cow that missed last year, and aborted the year before that, and I kept her around (dont ask me why, just did) Well, she actually bred, and last week gave birth to a solid black bull calf. (Yep, thats the black limo coming out)!!

 

[jcarkie]

if that calf would sell for $1500 that would make up for last 2 years plus this winter.... everytime i let one go out of sympathy they always mess up so i have grown hard and calloused - sell - sell or give me a calf to sell.

 

[Limomike]

I know that calf isnt going to sell for $1500, but I do know over the last 14 years that momma cow had produced some very fine calves, and most of hers were bull calves. And her calves consistantly have a ADG or 2.8 or better, just on grass. She has more than earned her keep around this place., and if I can get another breeding or three out of her, then I will be happy.

 

[randiliana]

Around here, if she is dry in the fall, then she goes to town. We feed for 5-6 months out of the year, and I just cannot afford to put $100/ton hay into a cow that isn't going to raise a calf. That works out to $1.50/day, or $225 - $270/winter.
So, figure 2 winters, $250 x 2 = $500
plus 2 summers, 191 days x 2 = 382 @ $1/ day

and you come to a grand total of $882 just for upkeep before she brings in her next calf. Or $690 by the time you figure out if she even rebred the second time around. That is pretty expensive if she comes up dry again. In fact that would come awfully close to what it would cost just to buy yourself a bred cow. If you bought her in the first place, you can just add that $900 to the original purchase price, and it is going to be awfully hard for her to ever bring in enough for her to ever make that all back.

The only time we ever kept dry cows around, was during the BSE crisis, when you literally could not sell them. Some rebred and lasted a couple years some didn't but all in all, I am pretty sure we never made any money on those cows.