Culling by age?

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Over the years I have made a lot of money buying cows that other people culled for age. Buy them this time of year for a little over kill price. Calf them out. They didn't get to be this old and not know how to raise a calf. Ship them in mid August after putting on weight and while the kill market is still good. I generally get as much or more for them than I paid at purchase. All feed cost I have against the calf is about 3 months winter feed and 4 or 5 months of pasture.
 
I used to think an 8 year old was old...drank that koolaid... but I'm holding on to them longer now. I do try to manage salvage value. Usually if they miss calving they are rolling fat and ready for slaughter. Yeah, I miss selling a calf but I've made it up by selling a fat cow rather than a skinny one.

I've got a couple at least 12, few more @ 10-11 with the vast majority 6-9.
 
A lot depends on the breed, too. Seems like dairy and dairy-cross cows don't last very long... 6 or 7calves? Criollo cattle, like Longhorn, Corriente, Piney Woods, etc, will calve in their 20's. I have had Brahmas too, calving at 15 yrs plus. Several on here have mentioned culling one on up there in age while it is still in good condition, before it misses or slips a calf. My granddaddy used to sell them with their 10th calf on their side bred back, if it was one we had raised. no matter how good a shape she was in or how good a calf she had on her. 8th calf at the side if it was a cow he had bought and didn't really know how old it was and/or how many calves it had produced. Bottom line is, there is no one , best answer. Ever how many people are on here, is about how many different opinions and ideas you will get. And, most everyone will give advice based on what has worked for them over their years, and with a lot of them, decades of experience.
 
I guess there's no one "right" way, but I reviewed my notes on cows for the last 25 years between my herd and my dads. Running commercial Brangus we would have come out a lot better culling around the 10-12 year mark.
The key would have been to sell them bred or with a young calf at their side. Have to be honest, we lost some "good" cows who declined very quickly, making $0. Selling that same cow a year or two earlier with a calf at their side would have made a big difference
 
It takes an exceptional cow for me to keep her last 10. I'm literally hoping for heifers out of her to keep her that long.
Reasons I sell cows by 10
1. They still have some considerable value at that age compared to a gummer.
2. Young cow herd is always more productive
3. Young cows breed back better and hold weight better on my winter feeding plan (which is roll out less hay than they really need and Mae em clean it up
4. You get in a routine of keeping x amount of heifers every year, and selling x amount of cows plus your "problem" cows.
5. Keep heifers out of the oldest cows, they had the genetics to survive my management. Hopefully their calves will to.
 
They get old in a hurry it seems. You think you have a young herd and then they are old. At 12yrs some go down hill and other make it to 15 yrs. I like the 12 yrs myself, but some want make it that far.
 
I do believe that timing is important no matter what age you cull at. An old cow should be shipped the day the calf is weaned. Why put feed into a cull? The only exceptions to that rule are if you approaching a time when the market historically increases or you have inexpensive feed for a cheap weight gain. Why carry a cull half way through the winter when feed is expensive? Why ship a cull who is 8 months bred? (I am personally glad people do this) How much does it cost to carry her through calving? How much more is she worth as a pair or a split? How culls are managed is an important portion of the income to any cattle operation.
 
I personally think culling by age is a very poor management decision. I don't care if she's 4 or 20. If she maintains condition and conformation, breeds in the first 2 cycles, etc Then she stays. If she doesn't she's gone regardless of age.

I have an cow that's 18 years old now. She is the first one to calve, first one to breed back, and she weans a 600lb calf pretty consistently. She maintains condition / is easy fleshing, gets fat on crappy forage, gains condition back quickly after calving and the udders are still good. I keep every heifer out of her. I have terrible forage quality and not much of it. It improves every year with proper management, but on years like this were I got 5.5 in of rainfall it's pretty bad.

If I were to have sold her at 10 years as others suggest, I would have lost a LOT of money on her. Even if I finally sell her as open one day, I will have made 10 times what I have selling her based off of age.

You can cull based off of characteristics that are common with aging cows...but to cull a cow that is making you money, breeding and maintaining condition...seems like tossing money down the toilet. I will sell other cows to keep more heifers out of her if I have to, if it comes down to the choice. If you sell at 10 years you're tossing away a lot of valuable metrics/data about what you are breeding and keeping in your herd.
 
I personally think culling by age is a very poor management decision. I don't care if she's 4 or 20. If she maintains condition and conformation, breeds in the first 2 cycles, etc Then she stays. If she doesn't she's gone regardless of age.

I have an cow that's 18 years old now. She is the first one to calve, first one to breed back, and she weans a 600lb calf pretty consistently. She maintains condition / is easy fleshing, gets fat on crappy forage, gains condition back quickly after calving and the udders are still good. I keep every heifer out of her. I have terrible forage quality and not much of it. It improves every year with proper management, but on years like this were I got 5.5 in of rainfall it's pretty bad.

If I were to have sold her at 10 years as others suggest, I would have lost a LOT of money on her. Even if I finally sell her as open one day, I will have made 10 times what I have selling her based off of age.

You can cull based off of characteristics that are common with aging cows...but to cull a cow that is making you money, breeding and maintaining condition...seems like tossing money down the toilet. I will sell other cows to keep more heifers out of her if I have to, if it comes down to the choice. If you sell at 10 years you're tossing away a lot of valuable metrics/data about what you are breeding and keeping in your herd.
I agree if a cow is performing to your standards whatever they may be she can be kept especially if she isn't taking someone's place. By that I mean in my case I'm expanding so no need to cull strictly by age because I want to grow. Someone who isn't growing who has replacements coming up might think differently.

The logic of culling the cow based on age is that the chances of a cow's performance declining and or her having health issues that cause her to lose and be unable to gain condition go up drastically as she gets older. It's a numbers game combined with musical chairs - you don't want.to own her when her value goes down. You can replace her while her value is high for only the difference between what you get for her as a cull and what you can replace her for. Depending how you do it maybe $300. Own her when she dies and it's full cost of a bred heifer. Gross income isn't profit and I don't follow how she could possibly make 10x more if you exchange her for a bred heifer for $300. If she dies at your place it likely wipes out the profit for the last 3 calves she had. You can afford that with a pet or in small numbers but it isn't advisable especially when you're dealing in large numbers.
 
I agree if a cow is performing to your standards whatever they may be she can be kept especially if she isn't taking someone's place. By that I mean in my case I'm expanding so no need to cull strictly by age because I want to grow. Someone who isn't growing who has replacements coming up might think differently.

The logic of culling the cow based on age is that the chances of a cow's performance declining and or her having health issues that cause her to lose and be unable to gain condition go up drastically as she gets older. It's a numbers game combined with musical chairs - you don't want.to own her when her value goes down. You can replace her while her value is high for only the difference between what you get for her as a cull and what you can replace her for. Depending how you do it maybe $300. Own her when she dies and it's full cost of a bred heifer. Gross income isn't profit and I don't follow how she could possibly make 10x more if you exchange her for a bred heifer for $300. If she dies at your place it likely wipes out the profit for the last 3 calves she had. You can afford that with a pet or in small numbers but it isn't advisable especially when you're dealing in large numbers.

I understand the thinking behind what you're saying, and I've been to several marketing and management groups that think along the same lines. I think it depends what your goals are. For my goals it would take me in the wrong direction. The risk mitigation piece and profitability goes far beyond a simple equation of asset value and replacement which is what that model is essentially based off of.

The problem with buying a bred heifer is she is an unknown value. The cow is a proven value, with proven fertility, longevity, udders, etc. If they heifer fails to breed back I'm going to lose more than if the cow does.

For one you have to consider the value of having those kind of genetics kept in your herd...from year 10-18 I've gotten 5 replacements from her. It's hard to quantify the value of great genetics in your cows...and I will keep praying for heifers out of her till she stops breeding. Unless you're running stockers, genetics are an important aspect of profitability.

Here's the problem...I could sell her at 10 years and get a bred Heifer for maybe $300 difference....but that heifer would have to produce for 9 years....again...there's as much risk in introducing an unknown value as the known value failing to perform.

Most of the things you mention as risk are mitigated by the other culling criteria. If she doesn't breed back in the first 2 cycles then she will be culled. Chances are she will still be bred when I sell her at that point and the price gap for a replacement is small. R If she starts having a hard time maintaining condition... same...so that leaves injury or death of natural causes...which...by introducing an unknown value to your herd...are risks anyway.

Not sure how you think I would lose 3 years profit lol. You must by some expensive cows.

3 years calves x 600lbs x 158=cwt=$2844

Sell old bred cow-$800 (might be able to get a bit more but I can get that pretty easily)

$3644 -$280 per year cost for cow =$840....so $2804 net profit for those 3 years. I pay $1100 for my replacements when I purchase them. So given her cull value I'm not even losing half of 1 year's profit.


But again my numbers for what I can sell and replace for are probably not yours. My marketing and my goals for my herd are different than yours. Just my opinion though.
 
Not sure how you think I would lose 3 years profit lol. You must by some expensive cows.

3 years calves x 600lbs x 158=cwt=$2844

You either don't have any expenses or you're confused about what profit is. You're doing well if you profit $400 per calf.
 
You either don't have any expenses or you're confused about what profit is. You're doing well if you profit $400 per calf.

Might want try and read a little more closely before responding like that.

I used your example of losing 3 years of profit. I then listed the gross sales for the example given. Then I listed the expenses
(My yearly cost per cow is listed at $280).

Revenue-expenses=net profit.

I make considerably more than $400 per calf, so do most people I know with similar management philosophies. Sounds like you may need to re-examine your operation.

We have very different goals for our herds and management it seems.

In a lot of ways what we're talking about is like investing.

1. Choice 1- What you're doing is like day trading stocks. You can make a lot of money in a short timeframe, and many people have made fortunes doing so....you can also loose a lot more in a short timeframe. Many people are very successful doing it...most are lucky to break even. You don't get the value of compounding interest...it's 100% based off your decisions and a lot of unknowns. You mitigate the risk of a single loss, but your overall risk is higher. It can be done successfully, sure.

2. Choice 2- You can invest in a single stock or mutual fund, buy more when you can, and maybe try something new every once in a while. You may come out a little ahead but it's for the most part stagnant and not growing or if it is, not by much (what most do).

3. You can actively manage your investments, making small changes or large changes when needed, always holding for the long term gain....Not selling well the indicators are still good... But waiting until very specific criteria are met before selling...taking full advantage of compounding interest (genetics /quality of herd), and continually finding new ways to improve those investments while reducing cost.

At the end of year 30, chances are number 3 is going to have led to the best return on investment. Maybe you are one of those that can make option number 1 work... based off your statements of profit per calf it doesn't sound like it though 🤷‍♂️
 
Might want try and read a little more closely before responding like that.

I used your example of losing 3 years of profit. I then listed the gross sales for the example given. Then I listed the expenses
(My yearly cost per cow is listed at $280).

Revenue-expenses=net profit.

I make considerably more than $400 per calf, so do most people I know with similar management philosophies. Sounds like you may need to re-examine your operation.

We have very different goals for our herds and management it seems.

In a lot of ways what we're talking about is like investing.

1. Choice 1- What you're doing is like day trading stocks. You can make a lot of money in a short timeframe, and many people have made fortunes doing so....you can also loose a lot more in a short timeframe. Many people are very successful doing it...most are lucky to break even. You don't get the value of compounding interest...it's 100% based off your decisions and a lot of unknowns. You mitigate the risk of a single loss, but your overall risk is higher. It can be done successfully, sure.

2. Choice 2- You can invest in a single stock or mutual fund, buy more when you can, and maybe try something new every once in a while. You may come out a little ahead but it's for the most part stagnant and not growing or if it is, not by much (what most do).

3. You can actively manage your investments, making small changes or large changes when needed, always holding for the long term gain....Not selling well the indicators are still good... But waiting until very specific criteria are met before selling...taking full advantage of compounding interest (genetics /quality of herd), and continually finding new ways to improve those investments while reducing cost.

At the end of year 30, chances are number 3 is going to have led to the best return on investment. Maybe you are one of those that can make option number 1 work... based off your statements of profit per calf it doesn't sound like it though 🤷‍♂️
Sounds to.me like your expenses are extremely low. Here we feed upwards of 200 days a year. Then we have to buy land, equipment, cattle, pay taxes, build fences, plant crops, buy mineral, pay the vet, pay ourselves and more. It costs more than $280/cow. Somehow with regular - not special cows I make a full time living off cattle between my own and working out at a bigger operation. My boss and I examine and discuss our operations quite a bit because between us we own and calve out 650 head so we're pretty heavily invested and focused on it. From an investment standpoint my short sighted strategy of investing in real estate(I've never day traded land) is definitely trending in the right direction as land values have more than doubled here in the last 10 years. I'm not sure how that translates in quality of herd value dollars but I think I'll stick to my regular cows.
 
There are as many types of herds as there are management plans.
In my situation, purebred cattle, I keep cows until they fail all the normal reasons. I don't buy replacements, I raise them. Every couple of years I have the opportunity to buy a cow that fits into the top end of my herd for a new cow family. Heifers are too much of an unknown. Plus I cannot afford to constantly be bringing in new bugs. My cattle get enough exposure to unknowns by showing them. I keep a tight herd focusing on cow families. Just a different perspective on the subject.
In our "line of work" there are sooo many options based on time, resources, LOCATION, and goals.
 

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