Crossing Continentals

[ndredangusnewbie]

Anyone ever cross Gelbvieh with Simmental? I've been thinking about whether that is just as feasible as crossing Angus/Red Angus with either of these two. Thoughts anyone?

JJ

 

[3waycross]

Anyone ever cross Gelbvieh with Simmental? I've been thinking about whether that is just as feasible as crossing Angus/Red Angus with either of these two. Thoughts anyone?

JJ

Not as much heterosis as Continental on british but obviously some. My question would be why? I thought about it just for an experiment but decided I would rather stick to my breed(Gelbvieh) or breed Balancers.

I know a fella who uses GV,Sim,Herf, and RA to make a composite. They aren't the prettiest but they throw a very uniform calf,,,and a good one also!

 

[ALACOWMAN]

if i were gonna do it,, that sound like one of the better matings

 

[Baldie Maker]

I'd have to agree with 3way and ask why. What would you gain from that potential mating? If I were going to cross with a continental it would be with British cattle. It's all about the end product; the continental cattle keep REA and yield grade in check and the british add quality grade.
With the BA/RA cross you still have an angus cow, hopefully she's not as large and easier fleshing than the gelb/simm cross animal.

 

[houstoncutter]

crossed some Limi's with a Gelbvieh bull...made some nice calves...even kept some for replacements

 

[JustSimmental]

I have never crossed these 2 breeds, but I think it would depend on what your focus is.
If you are looking for an improvement in performance (WW, YW) then, yes I think they would help you improve those traits. You will however get some increase in MM, BW and a decrease in calving ease. The PBSM will also increase REA, decrease BF and IMF and possible SHR.

If you are looking for better carcass merits, then either Red or Black Angus would be your best bet, but you will decrease your performance traits (WW,YW).

Perhaps a Sim /Angus would be more beneficial to you as it would further potential "good traits" via Hybrid Vigor in a 3-waycross.

JS

Anyone ever cross Gelbvieh with Simmental? I've been thinking about whether that is just as feasible as crossing Angus/Red Angus with either of these two. Thoughts anyone?

JJ

 

[3waycross]

I have never crossed these 2 breeds, but I think it would depend on what your focus is.
If you are looking for an improvement in performance (WW, YW) then, yes I think they would help you improve those traits. You will however get some increase in MM, BW and a decrease in calving ease. The PBSM will also increase REA, decrease BF and IMF and possible SHR.

If you are looking for better carcass merits, then either Red or Black Angus would be your best bet, but you will decrease your performance traits (WW,YW).

Perhaps a Sim /Angus would be more beneficial to you as it would further potential "good traits" via Hybrid Vigor in a 3-waycross.
JS

Anyone ever cross Gelbvieh with Simmental? I've been thinking about whether that is just as feasible as crossing Angus/Red Angus with either of these two. Thoughts anyone?

JJ

Actually it wouldn't on a primarily Angus cowherd. The Sim/GV bull would give better heterosis

 

[dun]

We just do a simple 3 way cross. Red Angus on the GV X Polled Herefords and Polled Hereford on the Red Angusx X Simmenthal and Red Angus X GV.
The biggest problem for me is there are so few Simmenthals or Gelbviehs that I like but tons of Polled Herefords and even more Red Angus.
I've got 8 or 9 units of a homo black Simmenthal in the tank that anyone can have, just come and pick it up.

 

[JustSimmental]

I have never crossed these 2 breeds, but I think it would depend on what your focus is.
If you are looking for an improvement in performance (WW, YW) then, yes I think they would help you improve those traits. You will however get some increase in MM, BW and a decrease in calving ease. The PBSM will also increase REA, decrease BF and IMF and possible SHR.

If you are looking for better carcass merits, then either Red or Black Angus would be your best bet, but you will decrease your performance traits (WW,YW).

Perhaps a Sim /Angus would be more beneficial to you as it would further potential "good traits" via Hybrid Vigor in a 3-waycross.
JS

Anyone ever cross Gelbvieh with Simmental? I've been thinking about whether that is just as feasible as crossing Angus/Red Angus with either of these two. Thoughts anyone?

JJ

Actually it wouldn't on a primarily Angus cowherd. The Sim/GV bull would give better heterosis

This is true if he was actually talking about a "primarily Angus cowherd", but he wasn't. He was talking about GV vs either Simm or RA / BA.

JS

 

[ANAZAZI]

Perhaps a Sim /Angus would be more beneficial to you as it would further potential "good traits" via Hybrid Vigor in a 3-waycross.

If the bull is an f1 cross and the cow is purebred, there is no extra benefit from a 3way compared to a 2way. For a 3way to work better the cow needs to be crossbred, not the bull. This is because maternal traits are greatly improved at the same time as the calf gets "fresh" heterosis from the new, third breed. :2cents:

 

[3waycross]

Perhaps a Sim /Angus would be more beneficial to you as it would further potential "good traits" via Hybrid Vigor in a 3-waycross.

If the bull is an f1 cross and the cow is purebred, there is no extra benefit from a 3way compared to a 2way. For a 3way to work better the cow needs to be crossbred, not the bull. This is because maternal traits are greatly improved at the same time as the calf gets "fresh" heterosis from the new, third breed. :2cents:

Could you please copy and paste the scientific study that claims that this is the case?

Sounds like a claim made by a breed assn that insists that the only thing that works for everyone is "thier" purebred bulls. I believe that there are Balancer, Sim Angus and Limflex breeders all over America who would disagree with your statement!

 

[ANAZAZI]

Perhaps a Sim /Angus would be more beneficial to you as it would further potential "good traits" via Hybrid Vigor in a 3-waycross.

If the bull is an f1 cross and the cow is purebred, there is no extra benefit from a 3way compared to a 2way. For a 3way to work better the cow needs to be crossbred, not the bull. This is because maternal traits are greatly improved at the same time as the calf gets "fresh" heterosis from the new, third breed. :2cents:

Could you please copy and paste the scientific study that claims that this is the case?

Sounds like a claim made by a breed assn that insists that the only thing that works for everyone is "thier" purebred bulls. I believe that there are Balancer, Sim Angus and Limflex breeders all over America who would disagree with your statement!

Let me rephrase that. There is very much less advantage breeding a purebred cow (breed A) to an f1 bull (breed B and C);
than breeding f1 cow (breed A and B) to a purebred bull (C). Do I make myself clear this time?
I dare you to find research proving this to be wrong.

 

[3waycross]

Here's a cut and paste for you.

Hybrid genetics are successful in combining reproduction, growth and carcass traits into simple, well-designed breeding programs for the commercial industry. The use of F1 bulls, much like the Balancer® program, goes a long ways towards providing a simple crossbreeding solution." - Dr. Harlan Ritchie

 

[ANAZAZI]

Here's a cut and paste for you.

Hybrid genetics are successful in combining reproduction, growth and carcass traits into simple, well-designed breeding programs for the commercial industry. The use of F1 bulls, much like the Balancer® program, goes a long ways towards providing a simple crossbreeding solution." - Dr. Harlan Ritchie

Alas, harnessed breed complimentary. And simple too. Not like f1 cows bred to a third breed however...
And while it can be lovely exercise to discuss with someone who pretends not to understand common knowledge; I am not up to it today.

 

[3waycross]

Here's a cut and paste for you.

Hybrid genetics are successful in combining reproduction, growth and carcass traits into simple, well-designed breeding programs for the commercial industry. The use of F1 bulls, much like the Balancer® program, goes a long ways towards providing a simple crossbreeding solution." - Dr. Harlan Ritchie

Alas, harnessed breed complimentary. And simple too. Not like f1 cows bred to a third breed however...
And while it can be lovely exercise to discuss with someone who pretends not to understand common knowledge; I am not up to it today.

Of course being the greatest beef producing country in the world we certainly look to you and the rest of Europe to tell us what to do with cattle. Tell me again exactly how you structure your breeding program and how marvelous the results are especially your carcass quality.
You and the rest of Europe breed for huge slabs of beef, nothing more. I don't disagree that a purebred bull to an FI cow is more heterosis than the other way around . What I disagree with are your smug statements that the other cross has NO value at all. Of course you know more than Dr. Harlan Ritchie, or does he also pretend not to understand "common knowledge"

 

[ANAZAZI]

I don't disagree that a purebred bull to an FI cow is more heterosis than the other way around .

:tiphat:

 

[BRG]

I have a bull customer from ND who has been doing this cross for years and has real good calves with real heavy weaning weights. But he has switched over and is now using 100% Red Angus bulls on these cows for now as he is having a hard time getting the calves sold. They are back quite a ways from the average calf of the same weight.

 

[ndredangusnewbie]

I have a bull customer from ND who has been doing this cross for years and has real good calves with real heavy weaning weights. But he has switched over and is now using 100% Red Angus bulls on these cows for now as he is having a hard time getting the calves sold. They are back quite a ways from the average calf of the same weight.

So the Simm/Gelb cross has caused him to have a hard time getting his calves sold? Why would that be?

JJ