Crossbreeding with Brangus

Help Support CattleToday:

No one is implying 'chasing rabbits.'

Use a maternal bull WHEN you need replacements. Use terminated sires when you don't.
 
Use a maternal bull WHEN you need replacements. Use terminated sires when you don't.[/quote]
lucky you came along when you did,, you have no idea how valuable this statement is to the board.... :lol2:
 
When I was buying stock in Texas 10 years ago, I saw some very nice Tuli cross females in the herd of a large Brangus rancher near Rice, he had a good market for the F1 heifers that he wasn't retaining in his own herd, some would have made good foundation stock for a Veldmaster herd.
 
andybob":qr8boihg said:
When I was buying stock in Texas 10 years ago, I saw some very nice Tuli cross females in the herd of a large Brangus rancher near Rice, he had a good market for the F1 heifers that he wasn't retaining in his own herd, some would have made good foundation stock for a Veldmaster herd.

Who was he brangus breeder who was doing this?
 
-XBAR-":3dt06pqb said:
Using a maternally oriented bull in a system where you only retain 'select heifers as needed' leaves a lot of money/lbs on the table.
*This is under the assumption that the retained heifers would be a very small % of your calf crop.

As I have admitted before, I am no seasoned rancher, but I just don't believe that has to be the case. I have seen many bulls of various breeds that produced great heifers (which became excellent cows) as well as scale mashing, well built steers. I know the textbooks say a bull can't be both terminally and maternally oriented, but modern genetics have seemingly created animals that are very well rounded. I know there isn't a magical bull that can do it all, but some exist that can do alot well.

And even if I were to give up a few pounds per head, being able to sell most of the heifers as replacements at the same price as the steers could make up the difference or even be more profitable.
 
WarEagle73":1m2zngfs said:
-XBAR-":1m2zngfs said:
Using a maternally oriented bull in a system where you only retain 'select heifers as needed' leaves a lot of money/lbs on the table.
*This is under the assumption that the retained heifers would be a very small % of your calf crop.

As I have admitted before, I am no seasoned rancher, but I just don't believe that has to be the case. I have seen many bulls of various breeds that produced great heifers (which became excellent cows) as well as scale mashing, well built steers. I know the textbooks say a bull can't be both terminally and maternally oriented, but modern genetics have seemingly created animals that are very well rounded. I know there isn't a magical bull that can do it all, but some exist that can do alot well.

And even if I were to give up a few pounds per head, being able to sell most of the heifers as replacements at the same price as the steers could make up the difference or even be more profitable.
be nice if he would admit that himself...you can bet he'd have you chasing your tail...........
 
The bull that I would use in a terminal situation would create females far too large to retain. I'd prefer to specialize in my bull selection.
 
@ War Eagle, if you're going to maintain one herd that you can AI/switch bulls as you see fit, then develop a good brangus cow herd (as Ala & I suggest). Then you can have a lot of different very great crossbreeding options once you've built up a herd. I thought you were going to a three herd breed rotation and gave my suggestion for that. However, if you're simply wanting to know a good breed for a bull to cross with your angus/baldie type cows right now, to maximize HV, then a Simm or Simbrah bull would fit the bill nicely for what you want (growthy steers & replacements). Yes, you can get a well-rounded bull that will produce good replacements and heavy steers. I'm out, no more tail chasin here. Hope that helps.
 
CopeMan":17rm6ab5 said:
andybob":17rm6ab5 said:
When I was buying stock in Texas 10 years ago, I saw some very nice Tuli cross females in the herd of a large Brangus rancher near Rice, he had a good market for the F1 heifers that he wasn't retaining in his own herd, some would have made good foundation stock for a Veldmaster herd.

Who was he brangus breeder who was doing this?
PM sent Copeman.
 
brihop":26mvupze said:
@ War Eagle, if you're going to maintain one herd that you can AI/switch bulls as you see fit, then develop a good brangus cow herd (as Ala & I suggest). Then you can have a lot of different very great crossbreeding options once you've built up a herd. I thought you were going to a three herd breed rotation and gave my suggestion for that. However, if you're simply wanting to know a good breed for a bull to cross with your angus/baldie type cows right now, to maximize HV, then a Simm or Simbrah bull would fit the bill nicely for what you want (growthy steers & replacements). Yes, you can get a well-rounded bull that will produce good replacements and heavy steers. I'm out, no more tail chasin here. Hope that helps.
No one is disagreeing with you that you cannot find a well-rounded bull. If you are content w/ middle of the road then so be it , but remember, the jack of all trades iss the master of none.

I'd suggest a bull w/o Sim influence over Angus type cows as purebred Sims already have considerable Angus influence. Greater vigor would be achieved by using a complete breed 'outcross.' If your looking at retaining females, breeds such as shorthorn, red Gelbvieh, or any of the brahma derivatives that don't have any Angus or hereford blood would be much better choices over black baldie cows.
 
Maybe I have been a bit confusing as to my train of thought on this topic so I'll try to clear it up. I think this is a great discussion and I am trying to soak it all in, but I'll try to back track a bit.

I have been throwing some ideas around in my head lately about the future. One of these ideas has been to maybe set up a three breed rotational crossbreeding system. I have already identified two breeds I would like to use for two of the legs.

The first being Angus. There are several reasons for this choice. The first being the size of the genetic base. This breed is so large I feel certain I can find multiple bulls and lines to do what I want. Angus females are generally great mothers, have good milking ability, and moderate sized which is critical in the Southeast on a forage based system.Additionally this breed is known for being the king of carcass quality in the commercial world. I can remember one of the managers of the largest feedlots in America saying he wants cattle with AT LEAST 50% Angus blood. One of the other nice things about Angus is that in North Alabama, you can't throw a rock in any direction without nearly hitting an Angus breeder, so finding a reputable breeder that has the type of cattle I want should be should be fairly easy and if not Semen is availible.

The second being Hereford. Most of the reasons for hereford are the same as Angus: good mothering ability, moderate, large genetic base, and easy find an excellent breeder. Additionally, this breed hasn't been influenced by Angus so heterosis should be maximized with this cross.

The third breed is where I am looking now. I would like to use a breed that can give me the same positives as both Hereford and Angus (Mothering ability, Moderate, Carcass Quality, and the ability to find a breeder or semen) as well as heat tolerance, maintaining adequate heterosis and if possible black hided. The breeds that have come up in this discussion or that I have thought of that could work would be Beefmaster, Simbrah, Gert, and Brangus. I wouldn't want to use fullblood Brahman as I don't believe that much Brahman influence is necessary in Northeast Alabama for cattle to thrive.

In this system I would retain heifers for replacements as well as selling extra quality heifers as breeding age replacements to local farmers. Steers would be sold as yearlings also or possibly sent to a feedlot and fed to slaughter if I am able to aquire bulls with good carcass genetics as well. I believe that in the Hereford and Angus breed that can do all of these things at a more than middle of the road level.

My question in this thread is what breed do you think would fit into that third leg best to accomplish this goal? All of the breeds listed fit most of the traits I would like. Brangus only has the question of a loss of heterosis. Simbrah might create females that are too large to my system. Gert is red but fits most everything else very well, so if I can create cattle the grade well and I finish them it might not matter as much for hide color. Beefmaster can probably do most of these things, but has some Hereford influence and I'm not as familiar with the size of the breed and number of breeders in my area.

And again this is for the future. Right now I am breeding my herd to an Angus bull to begin to remove some of the variation (first calves hitting the ground now) and I want to breed the daughters to a Hereford bull, so I am a minimum of 3 years away from having to make a decision on the next step if I can find land make it all work. What y'all think is giving me some great points to think about while I try to build up to that point.
 
Makes more sense now, Id go with a Gert bull then. Beefmasters are still gonna give you way to many color variations I would think. Maybe a Senepol would benefit you? Suppose to have some great maternal traits. Ive heard the bull calves will still have a feminine head on them....just what Ive heard, so may not be true.
 
moderate framed simbrah isn't going to give you too much size. offspring are only 1/2 blood anyway. nothing wrong with gert, but simbrah is my suggestion for your last spot in your potential rotation, final answer :)
 
-XBAR-":tsrz2b32 said:
brihop":tsrz2b32 said:
@ War Eagle, if you're going to maintain one herd that you can AI/switch bulls as you see fit, then develop a good brangus cow herd (as Ala & I suggest). Then you can have a lot of different very great crossbreeding options once you've built up a herd. I thought you were going to a three herd breed rotation and gave my suggestion for that. However, if you're simply wanting to know a good breed for a bull to cross with your angus/baldie type cows right now, to maximize HV, then a Simm or Simbrah bull would fit the bill nicely for what you want (growthy steers & replacements). Yes, you can get a well-rounded bull that will produce good replacements and heavy steers. I'm out, no more tail chasin here. Hope that helps.
No one is disagreeing with you that you cannot find a well-rounded bull. If you are content w/ middle of the road then so be it , but remember, the jack of all trades iss the master of none.

I'd suggest a bull w/o Sim influence over Angus type cows as purebred Sims already have considerable Angus influence. Greater vigor would be achieved by using a complete breed 'outcross.' If your looking at retaining females, breeds such as shorthorn, red Gelbvieh, or any of the brahma derivatives that don't have any Angus or hereford blood would be much better choices over black baldie cows.
Just wanted to clarify where I said 'over' I meant bulls covering over black baldies, not instead of black baldie cows.
 
-XBAR-":1wvynhs4 said:
I'd suggest a bull w/o Sim influence over Angus type cows as purebred Sims already have considerable Angus influence. Greater vigor would be achieved by using a complete breed 'outcross.' .


I wonder why Simangus do so well in tests... Always among the leading groups must be a fluke.
 

Latest posts

Top