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crossbred bull question
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<blockquote data-quote="simme" data-source="post: 1724729" data-attributes="member: 40418"><p>This topic has come up before. Seems like many believe that a crossbred bull should not be used. That it is a mongrel that will not have genetic merit and will not produce predictable consistent progeny. I have seen many purebred registered bulls that I would not want on my cows. Many crossbred bulls that I would not use. But I have used some crossbred bulls and been happy with the results. AI bred a couple weeks ago, mostly to crossbred bulls.</p><p></p><p>There are some breeds that are "pure" in the sense that they are recorded in a breed registry that goes back hundreds of years. There are some "breeds" that are newer. Take Brangus for instance. 3/8 brahma and 5/8 angus. Cross a brahma and an angus and get a 50/50 percent crossbred. Take some of those 50/50 cows and breed to an angus and get a 25/75 percent crossbred. Take one of those 25/75 percent and breed to one of those 50/50 percent. Now you have a 3/8 brahma and 5/8 angus. Is it a crossbred or is it now a purebred brangus? Best I know you can still make registered brangus following the path I just listed. Did the two crossbred parents produce a purebred brangus?</p><p></p><p>Is a registered beefmaster a crossbred or a purebred? Three breeds in that recipe. Remember Jim Leachman? Master marketer of red angus cattle. Started with black angus at Ankony. Then red angus in Montana. Dabbled in south devon, salers, gelbvieh, and other continental breeds. Developed a multibreed crossing that he termed and trademarked as "Stabilizers". Were those purebreds or crossbreds? Pushed the idea that after several generations of breeding these crossbreds, their genetics were "stabilized" like a purebred. Leachman sold over 3000 bulls per year, many produced by cooperator herds. He was a master marketer.</p><p></p><p>When you cross two or three breeds and get those crossbred cows, can you decide that after reaching some defined percent mix of the breeds for x generations - that they are now purebreds? What percentages and what number of generations ensure consistent genetics and a consistent calf crop? Are Brangus and Beefmaster purebreds? Are they suitable for herd bulls? I have questions, but not all the answers.</p><p></p><p>I have simmental cows and use simmental, angus and simangus (crossbred) bulls. Simangus animals are recorded in the American Simmental Association. There is no defined percent split of the two breeds. They are crossbred. The simangus bull I used for AI this year sold for $40,000. Semen was $40/straw. That don't make him good or bad but indicates that some people are not concerned with using a crossbred bull. I am one of those people. My bull selections are based on a lot more than if he is purebred or not. I will admit that I am not as smart as I think I am. Same as those that say you should never use a cross bred bull.</p><p></p><p>Look at chicken and pigs. You won't find many purebreds in a commercial production operation now. But you will find very consistent and very efficient animals that breed true.</p><p></p><p>Just my thoughts. Some will disagree.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="simme, post: 1724729, member: 40418"] This topic has come up before. Seems like many believe that a crossbred bull should not be used. That it is a mongrel that will not have genetic merit and will not produce predictable consistent progeny. I have seen many purebred registered bulls that I would not want on my cows. Many crossbred bulls that I would not use. But I have used some crossbred bulls and been happy with the results. AI bred a couple weeks ago, mostly to crossbred bulls. There are some breeds that are "pure" in the sense that they are recorded in a breed registry that goes back hundreds of years. There are some "breeds" that are newer. Take Brangus for instance. 3/8 brahma and 5/8 angus. Cross a brahma and an angus and get a 50/50 percent crossbred. Take some of those 50/50 cows and breed to an angus and get a 25/75 percent crossbred. Take one of those 25/75 percent and breed to one of those 50/50 percent. Now you have a 3/8 brahma and 5/8 angus. Is it a crossbred or is it now a purebred brangus? Best I know you can still make registered brangus following the path I just listed. Did the two crossbred parents produce a purebred brangus? Is a registered beefmaster a crossbred or a purebred? Three breeds in that recipe. Remember Jim Leachman? Master marketer of red angus cattle. Started with black angus at Ankony. Then red angus in Montana. Dabbled in south devon, salers, gelbvieh, and other continental breeds. Developed a multibreed crossing that he termed and trademarked as "Stabilizers". Were those purebreds or crossbreds? Pushed the idea that after several generations of breeding these crossbreds, their genetics were "stabilized" like a purebred. Leachman sold over 3000 bulls per year, many produced by cooperator herds. He was a master marketer. When you cross two or three breeds and get those crossbred cows, can you decide that after reaching some defined percent mix of the breeds for x generations - that they are now purebreds? What percentages and what number of generations ensure consistent genetics and a consistent calf crop? Are Brangus and Beefmaster purebreds? Are they suitable for herd bulls? I have questions, but not all the answers. I have simmental cows and use simmental, angus and simangus (crossbred) bulls. Simangus animals are recorded in the American Simmental Association. There is no defined percent split of the two breeds. They are crossbred. The simangus bull I used for AI this year sold for $40,000. Semen was $40/straw. That don't make him good or bad but indicates that some people are not concerned with using a crossbred bull. I am one of those people. My bull selections are based on a lot more than if he is purebred or not. I will admit that I am not as smart as I think I am. Same as those that say you should never use a cross bred bull. Look at chicken and pigs. You won't find many purebreds in a commercial production operation now. But you will find very consistent and very efficient animals that breed true. Just my thoughts. Some will disagree. [/QUOTE]
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