crossbred bull question
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callmefence
Keyboard cowboy
He's fixing to start calling y'all pidgins...I seen him do it before. ..
MurraysMutts
Well-known member
Pretty sure I've contributed to the pidgin scat on this one! Someone may have to visit the dentist!
I have pics of crossbred bull/crossbred cow matings... they are in my bull thread. Even came out ok on the only calf I sold so far. Same money as my baldies..
Will have more this spring!
So far so good!
I still stand by the keeping the highland animal DNA out of it tho!
I have pics of crossbred bull/crossbred cow matings... they are in my bull thread. Even came out ok on the only calf I sold so far. Same money as my baldies..
Will have more this spring!
So far so good!
I still stand by the keeping the highland animal DNA out of it tho!
He can call me whatever he wants it won't change the facts . 3way cross is best way to reach maximum hybrid vigor. It even states that in the video he posted. He has painted himself in a corner. So instead of admitting he is wrong or continue to debate he will attack me personally instead. He can through all the mud he wants doesn't change the facts.
Buck Randall
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People better have their dentists on standby...
Whew! Real slow,. so even you can understand. Hybrid vigor..heterosis.....come from crossing 2 breeds with very different genetic make up. The more difference, the more hybrid vigor. The 2 bos taurus breeds sharing the least DNA, are the Angus and the Hereford. Man shows a chart that a 5 yr old can understand, and goes into detail explaining it. Lot of difference....almost no genetics shared between Angus and Hereford. Almost NO difference in the genetics shared by the Continentals. The purpose of a hybrid, or 2 way cross breed, is to get calves that will outperform a purebred calf of either parent breed. And have less chance of developing disease or conditions that may be common in either parent breed. A black baldy calf will grow off better than a pb Angus or pb Hereford will. And these are supposed to be designated for the feed lot. some people like to retain heifers. Worse thing in the word would be to breed black baldies to black baldies..youd get a hodge-podge of calves with almost no hybrid vigor. Best thing to do wpou;ld be sell the heifers and buy you some more Angus or Hereford, depending on how you are doing the cross.
Breeding these black baldies back to a pyre bred angus bull, or a purebred hereford bull, would give you some consistency, at least, ,but very little hybrid vigor over breeding pb Angus or pb Hereford cattle. So....and read this very slowly.. pausing and thinking about each word.. Ready? IF you retain these baldy heifers, and IF you insist on making them brood cows, THEN the BEST thing you could do is breed them to a bull of a third breed. This will give you the maximum heterosis from using these baldy heifers as brood cows. Not as much as the original pb x pb cross, but it the only way to maximize heterosis from using cross bred cows.
If you can't grasp that, then I give up. You and the others just go on and strut around sh*ttin' on the board!!!
The top line on the chart says
Term.sire/purchased f1 female next line says 100%max heterosis
His words say in this case the terminal sire is a charolias bull that is then crossedwith a angus /herford cross female.
So offspring would have three different breeds (a three way cross) and that results in maximum heterosis in both his chart and in his words.
I don't go to the best school but I am pretty sure 1+1+1=3
And that if a calf has a charolias daddy and a angus/herford cross mommy then he is a three way cross. Charolias +angus+herford = a three way cross.
If your math says 1+1+1 =2 then I guess you will have to splain how dat wurks.
Ain't none of them started strutting around the board crapping yet, but a couple are starting to coo!!!
RMC? That particular part of the presentation was regarding what to breed the cross bred...2 way cross...heifers/cows to, if one wanted to retain heifers from the Angus/ Hereford cross...black baldies. Angus x Hereford gives the maximum heterosis from breeding 2 bos taurus breeds. The best results, are breeding Brahma to Hereford. I think @Caustic Burno or @Brute 23 one, has a pdf of that report.
No quite big boy
Here is the document that that speech is based on
Please pay particular attention to page 3 with the chart and explanation that clearly states a three way cross is the best way to get max hybrid vigor.
Addition info
please pay carefull attention to table 7 and show me where it shows in either document that a 3 way cross doesn't meet max heterosis.and where it says a 2 way cross (herford/ angus ) is better then a 3 way cross.
please pay carefull attention to table 7 and show me where it shows in either document that a 3 way cross doesn't meet max heterosis.and where it says a 2 way cross (herford/ angus ) is better then a 3 way cross.
I'm not 100% on what's going on but I think yall are both right... but talking about 2 different things. 
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
If you want to to really learn about hybrid vigor and the crosses that maximize it.
You need to read Dr. David Riley's work relating to genetic improvements currently of TAMU and T.C. Cartwright I believe was MSU.
You need to read Dr. David Riley's work relating to genetic improvements currently of TAMU and T.C. Cartwright I believe was MSU.
branxchar&charx
Well-known member
...well...at least the thread didnt turn into a full on mud slinging contest..
Now back to the original question, while ive seen a highland charolais cross and it is cute, but i absolutely would not buy him at that price. Plus need the facilities to keep a bull As everyone said. They will get bored. If you have neighbors, they won't be pleased if he makes a visit.
Now back to the original question, while ive seen a highland charolais cross and it is cute, but i absolutely would not buy him at that price. Plus need the facilities to keep a bull As everyone said. They will get bored. If you have neighbors, they won't be pleased if he makes a visit.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
WA has figured out MOST of the genetic info. But, he is totally WRONG about 3-way cross. The absolutely BEST COW is a 2-way cross cow. Use your 2-way cross cow with a PUREBRED bull and you get the BEST heterosis - this is called a THREE-WAY CROSS calf. This is the BEST.
This has been discussed over and over and proven thru lots of university research. Absolutely no one has come up with different info. Well, no one except WA.
This has been discussed over and over and proven thru lots of university research. Absolutely no one has come up with different info. Well, no one except WA.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Nailed it!
After 3 way too many crayons out of the box and the vigor diminishes. Again highly documented.
That's the report I was thinking about. I thought I had it saved in pdf on this puter ,but I can't find it.;
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
I am to stupid to paste it to the board. I have tried several times.
If you use an actual computer, when you click reply, you will see a button on the bottom left called "Attach Files". Dunno what it looks like on a phone, but probably something similar.
Silver, this is only first hand evidence that northern cattle are second rate, poor doing junk that the buyers reject.
