Creep feed alternatives

[somn]

Somn - Can you do the math for me again. I know you broke it down pretty simple but "cyphering" was never one of my strong points.

Up near the top of the page click on go to previous. Very simple actually maybe it is your vision not cyphering you stuggle with.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Feed conversion is usually much better in a dry lot than on pasture. It is difficult to get a pasture creep feed conversion better than 10 to 1 due to substitution. This is where the feed lots have an advantage SOMN.

So are you trying to tell me that when grass is (the major) part of the cattles diet (grain can have) a (low) feed conversion.

Substitution occurs when the cattle eat less grass because you supplement them with something like grain.
Negative associative effects are when the rumen bugs get messed up by a dose of starch.
Bottom line is it hard to make creep feeding pay unless grain is very cheap (like two years ago), there is not much grass left in the pasture (so there is no substitution), or the value of gain is very high (like on light calves).
I am supplementing light calves this year. I supplemented them all last year but I was using $1.60 corn...

 

[somn]

Feed conversion is usually much better in a dry lot than on pasture. It is difficult to get a pasture creep feed conversion better than 10 to 1 due to substitution. This is where the feed lots have an advantage SOMN.

So are you trying to tell me that when grass is a part of the cattles diet it has a negative impact on feed conversion

Substitution occurs when the cattle eat less grass because you supplement them with something like grain.
Negative associative effects are when the rumen bugs get messed up by a dose of starch.
Bottom line is it hard to make creep feeding pay unless grain is very cheap (like two years ago), there is not much grass left in the pasture (so there is no substitution), or the value of gain is very high (like on light calves).
I am supplementing light calves this year. I supplemented them all last year but I was using $1.60 corn...

I can't understand why you would change my quote but you did anyway. I would like in the future for you to leave my quotes just as they are typed not add your own words to them. As far as ruman bugs there is a neat little feed ingredient called monensin it eliminates the problem you speak of. Or maybe you should try bovatec. I'm guessing you are having a hard time understanding the concept of feeding cattle grain as are many others on this board. But regardless because the math is to hard for you to understand I say thanks for the extra profit. If you can't make 7 to 1 because of grass in the diet take them off the grass. 7 to 1 will still make money even at todays feed prices.

 

[somn]

You give me the cheap compensatory gain instead of pocketing it yourself. quote]

Somn, I know there has been lots of research out there showing compensetory gain on stocker calves. However, while I was in Grad school at Auburn, there was a Doctoral student from Mexico Jose Z (I can not spell his last name) that did a study on compensetory growth. In his study he never observed compensetory growth. I do not know if this was a fluke but one one think that in 6yrs of research if there was any validity in compensetory growth his study would have shown it.

I know a calf nursing and eating grain grows like nobody's business. My point being is that I am not convinced that the compensetory growth so many stocker people talk about is actually accuring.

Back to Jose research he found that the calves that had been preconditioned wormed , vaccinated, started on feed gain faster than those that had not been preconditioned.

If you do a search in the Agronomy Journal you should be able to find his published paper. I wish I could remeber more specifics obout his materials and methods.

Well you can believe whatever you would like but one fact remains unchanged when you sell a calf lighter than you could have had it been fed some grain. You have lossed profit. Your loss of profit is now my profit. I was compensated for you not doing the best job you could do. That has nothing to do with cost of feed that is a management issue.

 

[mnmtranching]

Feed conversion is usually much better in a dry lot than on pasture. It is difficult to get a pasture creep feed conversion better than 10 to 1 due to substitution. This is where the feed lots have an advantage SOMN.

So are you trying to tell me that when grass is (the major) part of the cattles diet (grain can have) a (low) feed conversion.

Substitution occurs when the cattle eat less grass because you supplement them with something like grain.
Negative associative effects are when the rumen bugs get messed up by a dose of starch.
Bottom line is it hard to make creep feeding pay unless grain is very cheap (like two years ago), there is not much grass left in the pasture (so there is no substitution), or the value of gain is very high (like on light calves).
I am supplementing light calves this year. I supplemented them all last year but I was using $1.60 corn...

Stocker Steve, Yes, I agree.
I have creep feed Reps from a couple very large companies stop by once a year or so with all their results of studies.
One company using by products like soy hulls, spoiled grain , and screenings, dust, dirt and whatever they have no market for, make it into some nice pellets and the price is $220 per ton. Put a little molasses in it, train the calves to eat it with some cracked corn. Make it so you don't pay until you sell the calves and they will rent you feeders too :roll:
Funny, people really fall for this stuff, If your going to creep feed have your local feed store or co-op make you up some.
It will be better feed and cheaper.

 

[regenwether]

Here were I live I make my own. I have a few farms too far away to mess with it so I buy it. Bulking it up I think is the key. I've argued with my feed rep. I want to grow frame not fat. Some of the creep out there is too much energy too little fiber. A couple years ago we had a drought in this area. We went through a lot of creep. I finish my cattle. Where I could see the difference was the heifers. Too much fat! 1000-1050 they were out the door. I like to take them to 1275-1325. Since then I've made my own here on the home place.

Dry guten,Cracked corn, ground ear corn, ground alfalfa is what I use. I did a feed analysis. About 12.5% protein. It should be a bit higher. I'll add more gluten to get it.

 

[somn]

Here were I live I make my own. I have a few farms too far away to mess with it so I buy it. Bulking it up I think is the key. I've argued with my feed rep. I want to grow frame not fat. Some of the creep out there is too much energy too little fiber. A couple years ago we had a drought in this area. We went through a lot of creep. I finish my cattle. Where I could see the difference was the heifers. Too much fat! 1000-1050 they were out the door. I like to take them to 1275-1325. Since then I've made my own here on the home place.

Dry guten,Cracked corn, ground ear corn, ground alfalfa is what I use. I did a feed analysis. About 12.5% protein. It should be a bit higher. I'll add more gluten to get it.

What is that dry gluten costing and from what plant are you getting it?

 

[I luv herfrds]

We've talked about doing creep.
What we would probably use is ground barley, oat hay, and alfafa. We would have that tested to get an idea of what is there, but so far weaning a few steers pushing over 600# at 6 months of age is not too bad.

 

[auctionboy]

Here were I live I make my own. I have a few farms too far away to mess with it so I buy it. Bulking it up I think is the key. I've argued with my feed rep. I want to grow frame not fat. Some of the creep out there is too much energy too little fiber. A couple years ago we had a drought in this area. We went through a lot of creep. I finish my cattle. Where I could see the difference was the heifers. Too much fat! 1000-1050 they were out the door. I like to take them to 1275-1325. Since then I've made my own here on the home place.

Dry guten,Cracked corn, ground ear corn, ground alfalfa is what I use. I did a feed analysis. About 12.5% protein. It should be a bit higher. I'll add more gluten to get it.

isn't corn gluten a poor protein quality? I would think you would want to use a fish meal or some other quality protein to feed to younger stock with a less developed rumen? This is a question, I am not claiming to know.

 

[regenwether]

The price is sliding down with the corn price. $90-100 ton. I get 5 ton at a time. I use it all the way to finish. I love it! In this area gluten and DDG's are everywhere. I suggest you use whatever you have in your area. Watch the protein and fiber.

One other little trick I do. I put the creep feeder in my calving pasture in April( feb calves). I'll start them on creep then. They don't eat much. Just a couple hundred pounds. I'll sprinkle a little around the feeder with a coffee can. When they go to grass in May they are taken off creep. When July comes around I'll pull the creep feeder in the pasture near the salt. The calves go right in. Before I started giving them a little in the spring I'd have a heck of a time getting them started. Now they go right at it.

 

[Herefordcross]

It amazes me that some people have trouble getting calves into feeders. We keep one in from the time the first calf is able to eat until we seperate calves and then I keep it in with the late calving cows/calves.

 

[somn]

The price is sliding down with the corn price. $90-100 ton. I get 5 ton at a time. I use it all the way to finish. I love it! In this area gluten and DDG's are everywhere. I suggest you use whatever you have in your area. Watch the protein and fiber.

One other little trick I do. I put the creep feeder in my calving pasture in April( feb calves). I'll start them on creep then. They don't eat much. Just a couple hundred pounds. I'll sprinkle a little around the feeder with a coffee can. When they go to grass in May they are taken off creep. When July comes around I'll pull the creep feeder in the pasture near the salt. The calves go right in. Before I started giving them a little in the spring I'd have a heck of a time getting them started. Now they go right at it.

So where do you live that you have both gluten and distillers grains in the same area?

 

[regenwether]

Eastern ia. I use dry gluten. I know of a lot local feed lots that use Wet DDG's because of the price.

Ron