Herefordcross
Well-known member
Just curious about what those of you that creep calves are switching to given the high feed costs?
Creep feed alternatives
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toby
Well-known member
Grass 
Herefordcross
Well-known member
Like I said for those of you that creep calves.
Bez>
Well-known member
Herefordcross":1lh27m6r said:
I do not - but a neighbour simply rolls oats and or barley - even that is expensive enough now-a-days.
Bez>
Herefordcross
Well-known member
I have been searching for alternatives and I've come down to a 14% pro. 2% fat, which is safe for replacement heifers and it gonna run us about $220/ton US. The type of cattle we run we have to creep or we'll never compete come sale time.
A friend of ours contract feeds about 300 steers from fall to spring on his place and they expect a certain amount of gain and the lost about $32/head this past go round due to corn going above $4/bushel.
A friend of ours contract feeds about 300 steers from fall to spring on his place and they expect a certain amount of gain and the lost about $32/head this past go round due to corn going above $4/bushel.
Herefordcross
Well-known member
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject:
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It was a smart alleck reply- but it was true. Right now creep feeding does not pay out.
If you need more gain-- consider beefing up your forages with interseeding annuals and intensive grazing.
It does pay out when your in the registered business.
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It was a smart alleck reply- but it was true. Right now creep feeding does not pay out.
If you need more gain-- consider beefing up your forages with interseeding annuals and intensive grazing.
It does pay out when your in the registered business.
I find that really hard to believe that your friend lost 32 dollars per head on account of the higher corn cost. If he tried to contract all inputs and had made sure he could sell the cattle on the board at a profit I don't see how he lost money. Unless of course he had a high death loss which is no fault of the high corn price. Perhaps your friend could not make a profit on paper thru contracting but he thought he would buy the cattle anyway hoping it would turn around before he sold them. Or perhaps he never tried contracting anything and just bought the cattle. Regardless if he lost money on cattle last go around and he bought in the fall that is poor management. The writing was on the wall in late september early october with the corn price. I find it odd when someone says they lost money feeding cattle in a feedlot on account of the high corn price. Virtually impossible to do. You might not make any money on cattle in the feedlot because of high priced corn but you won't lose any for sure. If you can't make a positive cash flow before you buy on account of high priced corn don't buy them. If you buy the cattle anyway and lose money thats not the corns fault that gets pinned right on poor managment.Herefordcross":24lxp1pi said:
Herefordcross":mr707t6p said:
Calves grazing ahead of the momma cows is referred to as "creep grazing". Our young calves do it till they're a couple of weeks old when they can;t slip under the hot wire anymore.
mnmtranching
Well-known member
I wonder how much per hundred weight I would need to get out of my calves to make up for 14% creep at $220 per ton. Nope, not going to work. :roll:
This taken right off Ft. Pierre Livestocks website. http://www.ftpierrelivestock.com/mnmtranching":2f63b3pj said:
For example lets use Hank Rasmussen
He sold 622# Steers for $127.50 = $793
He also sold 464# steers for $1.38 = $640.32
Lets assume he creep fed the 622# steers using your feed cost of $220 per ton. Lets assume feed conversion is 7 to 1 not real good for those little guys but we will use it anyway.
The steers weighed 158# more while eating 1106# of creep feed. Feed costs 1106# @ .11 = $121.66
So now go back up to revenue per head
$793
- $640.32
--------
$152.68
$152.68
- $121.66
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$31.02 more profit on the heavy steers
mnmtranching I like cow calf ranchers like you always putting the extra money in my pocket instead of yours. And if that isn't bad enough for your operation you will tell everyone how smart your way is and how stupid everyone elses way is. I feel sorry for you guys that are apparently blinded by the tall grass that surrounds you. Looks like that free grass wasn't free after all.
http://www.ftpierrelivestock.com/
MARKET REPORT
Friday, May 18th, 2007
Ft. Pierre Livestock Market Report - Clf Sale - Friday, May 18th, 2007
Last Friday, April 18th, we had a good run of cattle, a good crowd of buyers on hand,
and a fairly active market.
Good kill cows $54 to $63
Low yielding & big bellied wet cows $45 to $55- mostly $48 to $54-
Shells & blemishes under $45
Feeding cows & cowetts $54 to $65- hfretts to $82.50
Bulls $60 to $76- cutting bulls to $90
Baby clvs $110 to $290 per hd
CALVES & YRLGS FC = Fall Clvs
# CWT
Obermeier Ranch, Clark 78 blk hfrs, BV 718 118.25
69 blk hfrs, BV 763 112.50
65 blk hfrs, BV 825 109.00
74 blk hfrs, BV 789 110.50
42 blk hfrs, BV 733 114.50
Roger Husted, Harrold 34 b/bwf strs 645 127.00
Hank Rasmussen, Presho 51 b/bwf strs 622 127.50
17 b/bwf strs 464 138.00
Shane Kramme, Ft.Pierre 13 blk/charx strs 643 123.00
Ralph Schelske, Reliance 55 b/bwf strs 811 113.00
27 redx strs 760 114.25
7 blk/redx strs 661 118.50
20 b/bwf hfrs 716 110.00
D&D Ranch, Long Valley 64 b/bwf strs 823 112.50
Edward Hawks, Howes 60 wf strs 902 106.25
Bill Marks, Gettysburg 69 blk hfrs 833 102.75
60 b/bwf hfrs 964 94.50
20 mixx hfrs 833 98.00
John Bush/Sons, Pierre 37 blk hfrs, BV 736 114.25
Dick Knox, Highmore 25 red ang hfrs, BV 825 104.75
Jake/Rocky Longbrake, Dupree 22 blk hfrs, BV 870 93.50
Ross Nielsen, Draper 16 blk hfrs, BV 708 109.00
Jim Murphy, Reliance 5 blk strs 643 116.00
4 blk hfrs 650 111.50
James Rock, Long Valley 15 blk hfrs 711 108.00
You left off some important figures to calculate a true profit.
interest on the money invested in the feed
Interest and cost of storage and the feeders
labor/electricity,fuel,machinery invested in putting out the feed
and the dock/lb at saletime for selling lbs instead of frame(there is one most years). I say this because you are only comparing weights at sale time--- instead of age and frame.Around here A 6 wt with a medium flesh will sell higher than a fleshed calf the same weight. That could be as much as ten dollars off your $32 profit on the creep fed calves alone.
I'll give you that the commercial economics don't apply to seedstock operations-- but IMO they should be used anyhow if your end market is commercial-- I can see why they are not- Alot of buyers are going to be impressed with fat slick animals wether they should be or not.
there is a time when creepfeeding pays-- but most of the time when feed goes up it doesn't (barring short term grass shortages). I don't think feeds costs are going down soon(if ever) so suggesting that instead of looking for a cheaper creep feed the answer might just be in interseeding and intensive grazing is good advice.
Another option is to find a local byproduct that there isn't a commercial market for.
interest on the money invested in the feed
Interest and cost of storage and the feeders
labor/electricity,fuel,machinery invested in putting out the feed
and the dock/lb at saletime for selling lbs instead of frame(there is one most years). I say this because you are only comparing weights at sale time--- instead of age and frame.Around here A 6 wt with a medium flesh will sell higher than a fleshed calf the same weight. That could be as much as ten dollars off your $32 profit on the creep fed calves alone.
I'll give you that the commercial economics don't apply to seedstock operations-- but IMO they should be used anyhow if your end market is commercial-- I can see why they are not- Alot of buyers are going to be impressed with fat slick animals wether they should be or not.
there is a time when creepfeeding pays-- but most of the time when feed goes up it doesn't (barring short term grass shortages). I don't think feeds costs are going down soon(if ever) so suggesting that instead of looking for a cheaper creep feed the answer might just be in interseeding and intensive grazing is good advice.
Another option is to find a local byproduct that there isn't a commercial market for.
Even when it is in black and white people still want to argue the economics of feeding cattle with a feedlot owner, You want to sit and nit pick over interest, labor, machinery, I could also sit and nit pick with you just the same .11 per pound feed is outrageous, You won't have any of the expenses you listed, for that price I would expect it delivered into a feeder provided by the mill and financed by the mill. 7 to 1 is horrible if you have that bad conversion on those calves I would suggest improving your herd even a holstien calf will do that without mothers milk. I used those wild figures just to make a fair arguement to those blinded by the tall grass. Trying to keep it simple.Howdyjabo":q23curmj said:
I've never seen a heavy calf discounted when feed is high priced just the opposite actually. After buying enough calves during high priced feed times and low priced feed times the trend becomes obvious to those buying apparently it is not as clear to those selling though.
mnmtranching
Well-known member
Hanks calves, 622 creep fed vs 464 non creep fed means nothing to me. To many variables. Type cattle, age, pasture conditions, parasites, nutrients, etc.
I can get creep delivered for 180. per ton. And I start feeding in a creep area about 1 month before weaning. My steers will wean better than 6.
I can get creep delivered for 180. per ton. And I start feeding in a creep area about 1 month before weaning. My steers will wean better than 6.
Pasture condition. Yep your right that was the exact reason why the calves weighed more in my example it had nothing to do with the feed they ate. Here I was trying to help you understand the economics of something other than free grass and still it went right over your head. Like I said mnmtranching I like guys like you. You give me the cheap compensatory gain instead of pocketing it yourself. I don't mind sharing the income with the cow calf guys by trying to explain how this works because without them I don't have any calves to buy but geez a guy can only try so hard to help the helpless. 1 pound of feed along with mothers milk will make more beef than 1 pound of feed in a feedlot without milk think about it if we feedlot owners can do it why can't you.mnmtranching":1ivv6qhk said:
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Herefordcross":2t10rkqy said:
Contracted creep feed pellets are $180 a ton here. Feed conversion will decide if you make or lose money at that price. Feed conversion is usually much better in a dry lot than on pasture. It is difficult to get a pasture creep feed conversion better than 10 to 1 due to substitution. This is where the feed lots have an advantage SOMN.
FOB by products were $55 a ton last summer, and $85 a ton last week. A sharp pencil will show that the fixed costs (which we often ignore) eat you up if you can not generating a decent ADG. So, you should supplement DURING CERTAIN TIMES of the year at these prices. The most profitable operators around here grind their own and hire help to sling 5 gallon buckets of energy based feed. It usually contains a lot of local cob corn or distillers or wheat mids.
9 cents per pound converted at 10:1 is $90 INCREMENTAL gain.
5 cents per pound converted at 10:1 is $50 INCREMENTAL gain.
So are you trying to tell me that when grass is a part of the cattles diet it has a negative impact on feed conversion. Wow here all I have been reading about from people posting on here is how grass is king. I've even seen it stated "without grass you can't make it with cattle". Now your telling me grass will actually cost more money. Those blinded by the tall grass are not going to like hearing that.Stocker Steve":31theubw said:
