Cows off the Market

[hillbillycwo]

Last time I bought cow/calf pairs off the market lost a fine calf due to pneumonia. It was really fast acting and the calf was dead before I could get back from the vet. This time in the fall when I buy a few I am thinking of taking them to the vet for some antibiotics and vaccinations then in my lot for two weeks then turn them out on the farm after that. The shots will be around 50 dollars ahead I am figuring as I will lepto, black leg, 7 way, worm them and do the antibiotic rounds probably give the pneumonia vacine and pink eee if flies are still about anything else you guys recommend or just go with the vet. My farm is in central kentucky.

 

[novaman]

I hate to be rude but pumping all that stuff in em at once isn't going to be a cure all. You're using antibiotics when you probably don't need them. How do you pencil it out by buying cattle and sticking an extra 50 bucks into them?

 

[hillbillycwo]

Not taken as rude. I asked the question. Gotta have thick skin to get the right answers and learn. What hurts is losing calves that you are counting on raising to sell. That hurts my feelings. I felt that penciling it out it appears to be a waste also on the antibiotics. The vaccinations are amust though as cattle off the market you really have no idea what there vaccination records are like. The cows probably will not require the antibiotics but I was strongly considering the calves though as I lost one of the three I bought like that last year with in the week. More than likely my fault as I was trying to fence in nasty weather and do way too much at the same time. Lesson learned tha tmistake will not happen again. Those 400 dollar ones stick with you. LOL. Thanks for the advice keep it coming. Lee

 

[chippie]

Learn how to give the shots yourself. You will save quite a bit of $.

 

[Alice]

I think your idea of taking them by the vet straight from the sale barn to get vaccinated is a pretty good idea. We vaccinate ours when we get them home from the sale barn, but we have the facilities, and as I remember, ya'll don't have them just yet. And frankly, some of those cows that we get act like they've never been worked in their lives and my husband and I wind up worn out and mad as hades at each other after fighting with them.

As for the antibiotic...I can see that, also...especially in calves...at least the baby holstein bulls I used to get at the sale barn to raise. GAWD knows the stuff they're exposed to at the sale barn. I used to give them a shot of nuflor before they got off the trailer here...and I began vaccinating them at the same time 'cause the chances that they'd had colostrum was nil to none.

When you take your new purchases by the vet for vacs, ask him about the antibiotic as a precaution and let me know if he approves of it, will ya'?

Alice

 

[hillbillycwo]

Alice, Nuflor is exactly what I had in mind. Guess as a newbie I know enough to be dangerous and cost me some real money. Actually the vet recommended it. We use a lot of LA 200 but I am not that fond of it. I am beginning to think it is being resisted by the bugs. Hopefully weather permitting I will be spending a week or 10 days on the farm next month putting in our handling facilities and catching up on my bush hogging. Got some rag weed to mow down before greenup. Would like to get a contract written for fertillizing and spread some red clover seed too but will see how things go. The main thing is the facility. I prefer doing my own vaccinations much cheaper. Giving shots is no big deal. Cutting claves is though. I have a few bull calves to band and tag as momma would not let us do it in the field.

Another quick question do you guys use the calf guard vaccination against ecoli? Our vet highly recommends it we do it and have not had scours or calf loss in five years after they hit the ground. It is a little pricey though about 20 dollars a calf. Thoughts or comments?

 

[dun]

When we brought in bottle calves form the sale barn we gave a shot of Nuflor when we unloaded them as recommended by the vet.
I think the calfgaurd deal is more of a regional/case by case deal. We've never used it and have never lost a calf that lives long enough to get up and suck. Friends of ours use it and have had the same results the last few years since they started using it.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

When you are "mixing" cattle from different sources, scrour guard is highly recommended. It is costly, but $20/calf?? sounds high. You have to give all "new" cows 2 doses (1st & booster), but after you have given your cows the booster, the following year, you just have to give 1 shot to the same set of cows. Anything new, needs the two shots prior to calving.
Remember, any vaccines you give at the time of purchase, isn't going to give you very much protection. Vaccines don't work very well if the animal is STRESSED, and going thru a sale barn, trucked to a vet = is stress! So, I would revaccinate in 2-4 weeks - ask vet.

 

[angus9259]

Some reiteration I'm sure but . . .

1. give the shots yourself - especially since many will need a booster
2. you can't give all those vacs at once
3. antibiotic may interfere with vacs
4. we use calfguard on the seedstock and don't on the commercial. Never had a scour problem with either . . . do with that what you will. to my knowledge, scourguard vacs have to be delivered orally to the calf within 12 hours of birth before the stomach closes off to colostrum reception . . . or you can vaccinate the dams prior to calving so I'm not sure how that would apply to you.
5. if you buy bred cows, MLV vacs may cause abortions if you don't have a vac history. Same is true of 3 in 1 s. If you give a MLV to a suckling calf, the momma can abort if she's not been pretreated with an MLV.

 

[hillbillycwo]

Will definitely talk to the local vet at purchase. We use the calf guard on the calves. Works best for us. But am thiking about doing the cows once the facilities are up and running.

 

[MoGal]

Ask em at the salebarn.... they already have a vet there and you at least wouldn't have a trip fee. True, they are stressed but if you don't have your own facilities that is what I would do.
For less than $2, you can get a pkg of electrolytes and put it in the grain (if you happen to feed them a bucket) or the water tub or add it to a small amount of minerals IF you think they've been overly stressed.

I have found that any small calf I need to give an antibiotic to, it always helps to give them a b-complex shot as well.

 

[Alice]

Ask em at the salebarn.... they already have a vet there and you at least wouldn't have a trip fee. True, they are stressed but if you don't have your own facilities that is what I would do.
For less than $2, you can get a pkg of electrolytes and put it in the grain (if you happen to feed them a bucket) or the water tub or add it to a small amount of minerals IF you think they've been overly stressed.

I have found that any small calf I need to give an antibiotic to, it always helps to give them a b-complex shot as well.

I have found that any small calf I need to give an antibiotic to, it always helps to give them a b-complex shot as well.

Oh heck yeah...and a dose of AE&D! And a good squirt of Probios!

Alice

 

[MO_cows]

Some reiteration I'm sure but . . .

1. give the shots yourself - especially since many will need a booster
2. you can't give all those vacs at once
3. antibiotic may interfere with vacs
4. we use calfguard on the seedstock and don't on the commercial. Never had a scour problem with either . . . do with that what you will. to my knowledge, scourguard vacs have to be delivered orally to the calf within 12 hours of birth before the stomach closes off to colostrum reception . . . or you can vaccinate the dams prior to calving so I'm not sure how that would apply to you.
5. if you buy bred cows, MLV vacs may cause abortions if you don't have a vac history. Same is true of 3 in 1 s. If you give a MLV to a suckling calf, the momma can abort if she's not been pretreated with an MLV.

Huh? Am I reading that wrong? The sucking calf that gets a MLV can cause its mother to abort the next calf??? Can somebody explain?

 

[kenny thomas]

A calf that has had a MLV has a chance of transmitting the virus to an unvacinated cow while sucking.

 

[Lucky_P]

MO-cows,
Calves(and adult animals, too) vaccinated with a MLV vaccine may shed live virus in their nasal secretions - and it's *possible*(but on a low order of likelihood) that the shedding calf could infect its mother, resulting in virus-induced abortion, or persistent infection (PI) with BVD, if the exposure happens between days 80-110 of the pregnancy.

 

[SRBeef]

Why not just purchased pre-conditioned calves? There are sales where the auctioneer will tell you these calves are weaned and have their shots, etc. Or buy them private treaty from someone who vaccinates them and seems to have a clean herd. Something about an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure. Sure you may pay a bit more for them but you've already lost a calf, what's that worth? And thinking of spending more per head... jmho.

Jim

 

[MO_cows]

Well today wasn't a total loss, I learned something. Thanks Kenny and Lucky!

 

[hillbillycwo]

I like the theory behind the preconditioned stock but I am doing the cow calf end exclusively right now. Buying cow calf pairs at the market in October you are basically getting one free in my area as there are lots of them on the market as farmers cull down for the coming winter. I buy the older versions with good weights 1300-1400 pounds for around 500 dollars or so they have 200-300 pound calves on them and are bred back to calve in the spring. I wean that calve at about 500 pounds in January ands then sell it. Momma calves and that calf goes in September time frame. I keep some of those old cows and if her calf is not so good she goes to the market as a slaughter cow for around 36 hwt. Works pretty good. Gives lots of flexibility come time for payments. I have gotten some really good heifers that way too from those old cows. Plus I find as a bonus they really help keep the herd calm. Learned the hard way though to keep them seperated for a few weeks to observe for disease.

 

[novaman]

I like hearing that you keep new critters seperate for awhile on account of disease. I would be extremely cautious with bringing in animals from all over. I hear lots of problems in mostly closed herds. The odds are not in your favor but some are lucky. Just to note, some things can be brought in that can't be eradicated once introduced. Good luck.

 

[hillbillycwo]

Thanks Novaman. I should add that I drag along with me another old Navy man that has been farming forever and is a very good cattleman. He has adopted me as a mentee and I value his advice. Our markets are mostly local farmers with very few cows brought in from all over. Lots of steers sold that way but the cow side seems to be a little more reserved on that respect. But I do watch very closely and unless my memory fails me the stuff that can't be eradicated is mostly either eradicated in our area and if cows come in from other ares they have to be bled. I believe that is bangs type stuff you are referring too right? IF not please educate this dumb hillbilly. LOL