Cows hiding their calves

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TennesseeTuxedo":33srie5u said:
tom4018":33srie5u said:
Usually ours will have a calf out in a few days. Found one Sunday with the buzzards circling and 20 or more on the ground, cow kept them away but stepped on the calf's leg.

Is your calf going to be okay Tom?
Doubt the leg will ever be right.
 
One way to find a calf is with a stock dog. The cows know me and are not worried about their calves if I go around on foot so if they have their calf hidden they won't give away where they are.

But if you dont mind giving the old girls a worry, and you have a well trained stock dog who really will go where you send it, the cows worry too much to keep the calf hidden with the dog around and will run off to the calf to defend it.

I will take the dog with me and watch where I think the cow is looking. I send the dog in that direction. Seeing the dog running around gets them worried and they will start looking for that calf in earnest and usually give away the calfs position. At this point you better have a dog you can call off in an instant and send somewhere else other than to you.

I would not take an average mut as that is likely to end in a big wreck - particularly if the dog is clueless and just blunders about, the cow would probably chase the dog. You dont want the dog to come running behind you with a mad cow after it, then you are in trouble.

Done with tact with a wide casting obedient dog there is not much stress or problem. Just seeing the dog from a fair distance is often enough for them to go and get their baby.

I have also found through much experience that if a dog is on a Quad bike the cows anti-dog instinct, even with calving ones, does not seem to switch on. If that dog jumps onto the ground around calving cows all hell can break loose. Pretty much goes for sheep as well. It depends on the dog too - some dogs are hated by calving cows and others dont worry them so much. A professional stock dog trainer reckons it is the intent of the dog the cows are reading and I think he is right.
 
Ozhorse":zfikffdz said:
One way to find a calf is with a stock dog. The cows know me and are not worried about their calves if I go around on foot so if they have their calf hidden they won't give away where they are.

But if you dont mind giving the old girls a worry, and you have a well trained stock dog who really will go where you send it, the cows worry too much to keep the calf hidden with the dog around and will run off to the calf to defend it.

I will take the dog with me and watch where I think the cow is looking. I send the dog in that direction. Seeing the dog running around gets them worried and they will start looking for that calf in earnest and usually give away the calfs position. At this point you better have a dog you can call off in an instant and send somewhere else other than to you.

I would not take an average mut as that is likely to end in a big wreck - particularly if the dog is clueless and just blunders about, the cow would probably chase the dog. You dont want the dog to come running behind you with a mad cow after it, then you are in trouble.

Done with tact with a wide casting obedient dog there is not much stress or problem. Just seeing the dog from a fair distance is often enough for them to go and get their baby.

I have also found through much experience that if a dog is on a Quad bike the cows anti-dog instinct, even with calving ones, does not seem to switch on. If that dog jumps onto the ground around calving cows all be nice can break loose. Pretty much goes for sheep as well. It depends on the dog too - some dogs are hated by calving cows and others dont worry them so much. A professional stock dog trainer reckons it is the intent of the dog the cows are reading and I think he is right.
Ozhorse, my Australia Cattle Dog found a calf for me last week. I went right by it and did not see it. I heard him yelp one time. I went back for fear he would try to herd it and he was just waiting on me. He is an excellent dog. Only herds them when I command and will single in on the one I want chased by me pointing her out.
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What a good dog yours is. They are so useful when they are a good dog (and mayhem when they are not).

It is actually the cow I use to find the calf. I think the cows know that dogs can find a hiding calf by scent. There are not many cows that wont watch the location of their calf if there is a dog wandering around. The closer the dog gets the more upset they get until they cant resist and will go and get it out of hiding themselves to take it away.

If it is just me on foot or horseback they are so unworried they will not even look toward where there calf is to give me a hint.
 
Ozhorse":24s0yzf2 said:
What a good dog yours is. They are so useful when they are a good dog (and mayhem when they are not).

It is actually the cow I use to find the calf. I think the cows know that dogs can find a hiding calf by scent. There are not many cows that wont watch the location of their calf if there is a dog wandering around. The closer the dog gets the more upset they get until they cant resist and will go and get it out of hiding themselves to take it away.

If it is just me on foot or horseback they are so unworried they will not even look toward where there calf is to give me a hint.

Interesting observations Oz. Unfortunately my Toy Poodle doesn't strike much fear in their hearts when we are out working the herd.
 
We use the kelpies (tell them to go 'way back' and they cast wide in a big circle). As you said Ozhorse, the cow decides to go find baby when the dog gets in the general direction of the hiding place.
I also use kelpies to herd the bulls and break up scrapping bulls. We start when bulls are weaners so they are used to dogs (and quad bikes).
 
Ozhorse":17n5kukv said:
What a good dog yours is. They are so useful when they are a good dog (and mayhem when they are not).

It is actually the cow I use to find the calf. I think the cows know that dogs can find a hiding calf by scent. There are not many cows that wont watch the location of their calf if there is a dog wandering around. The closer the dog gets the more upset they get until they cant resist and will go and get it out of hiding themselves to take it away.

If it is just me on foot or horseback they are so unworried they will not even look toward where there calf is to give me a hint.
Ozhorse, my dog is three now. I bought him from a one of the top breeders in Kentucky. He is registered as "Blue Licks Dingo". I have been tough on him at times. He is with me every single day, all day. He rides beside me in the truck. Being together as we have, I have had the opportunity to develope him into something special. I can see that dogs with this much energy and independance could be a nightmare for anyone who did not spend time with him. In my case, he knows what I want. I find myself thinking of him as a person. I have come to reject some of my neuroanatomical teachings, dogs have more cerebral capability that science credits them with. My dog has complex emotional expressions that I would have dismissed if I had not spent the last three years with him.
 
I think sometimes the problem with stock dogs is that they are smarter than their owners (particularly border collies). I know my dogs NEVER get clockwise (left) and anticlockwise (right) mixed up - but I know my dogs know that I do. For that matter cows know when milking time is - mine know I have been feeding them Mondays but they dont have callenders or clocks.

Blokes in lab coats dont know much about working closely with animals (and I have been a bloke in a lab coat). If you read scientific literature on horse training - then compare that with what really good horse trainers know - then the scientific literature seems childish and not even asking sensible questions.

I think the emotional lives of animals are like ours in many ways. I have thought that even more since I started commercially farming only 7 years ago.

Working dogs are great. I could not run my place without them.
 
What really gets me is when I am trying to find a new calf and the cow doesn't seem to know where it is either and I will be looking everywhere and the cow just follows me around bellowing.
I think most of the time when that happens is the calf has probably got too hot in the sun and moved to a shady spot.
 

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