Cow won't let calf nurse....

[robertwhite]

Had some pretty good success tonight. :clap:

Cut out a square on both sides (like a drop panel in a squeeze chute) and put the calf on the cow. Cow did not kick and actually calmed down. Calf drank a ton of milk and is quite content right now. Don't know yet if the cow will stand for nursing, but if not I will bottle feed later tonight, and I will repeat the chute feeding in the morning. I think she will come around. Seems like she was just spooked by the new things happening to her. She is a great cow and I sure would hate to sell her. Hopefully, the success will continue.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Had some pretty good success tonight. :clap:

Cut out a square on both sides (like a drop panel in a squeeze chute) and put the calf on the cow. Cow did not kick and actually calmed down. Calf drank a ton of milk and is quite content right now. Don't know yet if the cow will stand for nursing, but if not I will bottle feed later tonight, and I will repeat the chute feeding in the morning. I think she will come around. Seems like she was just spooked by the new things happening to her. She is a great cow and I sure would hate to sell her. Hopefully, the success will continue.

Sounds like you made some good progress. Tomorrow is a new day!

 

[Roadapple]

If the calf drank a ton of milk, as you say, I think I would forego the bottle tonight, or you might be fighting a different problem. Good for you for working with her instead of giving up on her. Another day or so and I'm betting she's a good mother.

 

[chippie]

Glad things are working out. One thing though, if you ever need to use a flank rope, do not pull it too tightly or the cow will lay down.

Another trick to keep her from kicking is that if you have a helper, once the cow is secured in the head gate, have the helper hold her tail straight up towards her back. I have done this many times and it does work.

 

[robertwhite]

Question about the flank strap/rope................ can it be put on the cow outside of the chute, like when she is just standing around? I do not need it once the cow is in the chute as she does not kick at the calf once she is in there. She allows the calf to nurse through the cutouts I made. But I can see where getting her in the chute is going to start being a hassle because she is already leery of the procedure. Kind of like a kid saying "on-oh, I ain't doing that again". :lol:

What about a set of hobbles? Can a cow walk around (in mud) and lay down when she is hobbled? Saw a picture of a set that has a padded wrap with velcro and then a chain in between in another thread. Where can they be purchased? If they will work, that would be MUCH easier than getting the cow in the chute twice a day.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I have bought some high dollar cow's in my day and I wouldn't have put up with that for two minutes.
I have better things to do than play with a cull cow.

 

[dun]

I've only done it in the pasture. Kind of tricky sometimes to get on them but once it's on you can leave it there for a couple of days without a problem. They just tend to walk kind of slow

 

[robertwhite]

I've only done it in the pasture. Kind of tricky sometimes to get on them but once it's on you can leave it there for a couple of days without a problem. They just tend to walk kind of slow

I was thinking I could get her up in the chute, put a flank rope on her so she can't kick and then put the hobbles on.

I think once the calf is openly nursing for a few days, the cow will stop the crap and I could then take the hobble off.

Can a cow lay down and then get back up with them on? That is my biggest concern.

 

[dun]

I've only done it in the pasture. Kind of tricky sometimes to get on them but once it's on you can leave it there for a couple of days without a problem. They just tend to walk kind of slow

I was thinking I could get her up in the chute, put a flank rope on her so she can't kick and then put the hobbles on.

I think once the calf is openly nursing for a few days, the cow will stop the crap and I could then take the hobble off.

Can a cow lay down and then get back up with them on? That is my biggest concern.

They do it, not real easily but they seem to manage

 

[randiliana]

That is my photo. It can be tricky hobbling a cow. What we do usually is put them down the squeeze chute and put a post across behind them tight enough so they can't really move around or kick. Then put the hobbles around from BEHIND the cow, cause she can still kick forward. The hobbles (and I don't really like that pair, I prefer the leather ones) are made of nylon, padded with felt. They are not velcro, but they have buckles (it is much easier to buckle the nylon ones than the leather ones).

We use them any time that we have a major mothering issue (usually when adopting a calf) after the first few minutes, and they have gotten used to them a cow has no problem getting around with them. She takes much shorter strides with the back feet, but believe me if she wants to run she can still go really good. If it was really boggy, muddy she might have some real trouble, but that is about it.

Usually we leave the hobbles on for about 5 days, some more, some less, depends on how the cow is acting with the calf. Hobbles are a wonderful thing, once you have them on, and make sure the calf has it figured out, you only have to check on them a couple times a day, not work with her.

Occasionally, we have run into a real nasty cow that will still butt the calf, and in that case depending on the situation we will either halter the cow and tie her up or we will give up and she will get culled.

As I stated above though, we mostly use the hobbles to adopt a calf onto a cow that lost hers. If we run into mothering issues where a cow won't take her own calf, 9/10 times we will ship the cow and adopt the calf onto a different cow or sell the calf to someone else, for the same purpose usually.

 

[backhoeboogie]

The cow has to go.

I have a nursing crate I built for the nurse cow. It has two fold functions in that hungry calves can be crowded to the cow once she's in the crate and the calves learn she is the surrogate. Most calves don't need a lot of coaxing but some do. After three days or so all the calves smell like the nurse cow's calf. Turn them out to pasture. I can milk that cow. She just doesn't take to strange smelling calves. The crate works great.

I had a purchased beef heifer that was crated a few times so that her calf could nurse. After crating her a few times it got to be a problem to run her in to the crate. She eventually took the calf. That pair were sold as a 3 in 1 when the cow was preg checked at the barn and found to be light bred. If my nurse cow would have been wet at the time, that cow (heifer some of ya'll call them) would have been long gone much sooner.

 

[pdfangus]

said it before and will say it again....
if you have to catch a cow regularly in the chute for anything.....
feed her while she is there. They will soon be going in there on their own.....

I have to keep the gates into my chute area closed or I have cows in the chute all the time bawling for feed.

 

[robertwhite]

That is my photo. It can be tricky hobbling a cow. What we do usually is put them down the squeeze chute and put a post across behind them tight enough so they can't really move around or kick. Then put the hobbles around from BEHIND the cow, cause she can still kick forward. The hobbles (and I don't really like that pair, I prefer the leather ones) are made of nylon, padded with felt. They are not velcro, but they have buckles (it is much easier to buckle the nylon ones than the leather ones).

Didn't read you post till now, but early this morning, I drove 45 minutes each way (after calling numerous stores) to get the leather ones I wanted. Actually made for horses, but obviously can be used on cattle. HEAVY leather with massive links and a swivel as the separator. Buckles on both collars. I put her in the chute, blocked her legs and easily put the hobbles on. She freaked out when I opened the chute, but settled down after a few minutes. Also gave her a shot of oxytocin just in case she had a milk issues (bag was body temp and milk flowed fine, but the shot can't hurt)

A couple hours later, I went out and grabbed the calf, stuck her at the cows side and she tried to nurse. Cow kept trying to get away, and trying to kick. Once she figured out she had lost the battle, she gave in and the calf nursed for a good 10 minutes. Gonna go out and observe in a little while, but I think the cow has finally figured it out and is going to nurse willingly. (I will not take the hobbles off for several days at the earliest). I really hope it works out as the cow is super sweet and VERY protective of the calf and she never once turned the calf away, she was just freaked about standing to nurse.

Looks like I have won the battle, just keeping my fingers crossed that I will win the war.

One more heifer due at any time (she is HUGE), and hopefully she will know what to do. After her, no more heifers until I breed 2 keepers in the spring.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

if you have to catch a cow regularly in the chute for anything.....
feed her while she is there. They will soon be going in there on their own.....

I've been doing this for a bunch of years now. Once I started this practice, it made my life a whole lot easier and made things run smoother. Very helpful since most of the time I'm doing much of it by myself.

Katherine

 

[randiliana]

That is my photo. It can be tricky hobbling a cow. What we do usually is put them down the squeeze chute and put a post across behind them tight enough so they can't really move around or kick. Then put the hobbles around from BEHIND the cow, cause she can still kick forward. The hobbles (and I don't really like that pair, I prefer the leather ones) are made of nylon, padded with felt. They are not velcro, but they have buckles (it is much easier to buckle the nylon ones than the leather ones).

Didn't read you post till now, but early this morning, I drove 45 minutes each way (after calling numerous stores) to get the leather ones I wanted. Actually made for horses, but obviously can be used on cattle. HEAVY leather with massive links and a swivel as the separator. Buckles on both collars. I put her in the chute, blocked her legs and easily put the hobbles on. She freaked out when I opened the chute, but settled down after a few minutes. Also gave her a shot of oxytocin just in case she had a milk issues (bag was body temp and milk flowed fine, but the shot can't hurt)

A couple hours later, I went out and grabbed the calf, stuck her at the cows side and she tried to nurse. Cow kept trying to get away, and trying to kick. Once she figured out she had lost the battle, she gave in and the calf nursed for a good 10 minutes. Gonna go out and observe in a little while, but I think the cow has finally figured it out and is going to nurse willingly. (I will not take the hobbles off for several days at the earliest). I really hope it works out as the cow is super sweet and VERY protective of the calf and she never once turned the calf away, she was just freaked about standing to nurse.
Looks like I have won the battle, just keeping my fingers crossed that I will win the war.

One more heifer due at any time (she is HUGE), and hopefully she will know what to do. After her, no more heifers until I breed 2 keepers in the spring.

Well, good luck with her. Hopefully once she gets this figured out she straightens out. The hobbles work great, but we have had problems with the swivel breaking (which is why our pair is held together with a chain link)

 

[robertwhite]

Well, looks like this just may work out after all.

I observed the cow stand for nursing on 3 separate occasions today/tonight with the hobbles on. Tomorrow, I will let the pair out into the pasture (still with hobbles) with the rest of the herd and see if she will stand for the calf out there too. I will let her deal with the hobbles for another 4-5 days before taking a chance on removing them. She may have a hard time getting around, but is sure as he!! beats having to bottle feed a calf for 4 mths and getting rid of the cow.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Well, looks like this just may work out after all.

I observed the cow stand for nursing on 3 separate occasions today/tonight with the hobbles on. Tomorrow, I will let the pair out into the pasture (still with hobbles) with the rest of the herd and see if she will stand for the calf out there too. I will let her deal with the hobbles for another 4-5 days before taking a chance on removing them. She may have a hard time getting around, but is sure as he!! beats having to bottle feed a calf for 4 mths and getting rid of the cow.

You are going to turn the cow out to pasture hobbled? That should insure an injury free cow fight.
Out of my curiousity why do you want to keep a cull cow? The cow has already proven to be a liabilty in time and money alone not counting the safety aspects of dealing with her. The cow's job is to produce and raise a healthy calf unassisted every 12 months. She Failed!! Is this cow's name Michelle because she is most definitely a welfare cow.

 

[Roadapple]

If you have her in a lot by herself, why not take the hobbles off her and see what happens first. If she's not turning away from the calf or butting it out of the way, chances are she's pretty much accepted it. Personally, I've never culled a heifer for having this problem, and I've never had this problem with them in following years. Don't cull just because someone says she's a cull. If you like her, and she turns around, keep her, she just may turn out to be the best cow you'll ever have. And, not putting anyone down for their opinions, but, that's all they are, their opinion. And opinions are just like a..holes. Everyone has one.

 

[backhoeboogie]

if you have to catch a cow regularly in the chute for anything.....
feed her while she is there. They will soon be going in there on their own.....

I've been doing this for a bunch of years now. Once I started this practice, it made my life a whole lot easier and made things run smoother. Very helpful since most of the time I'm doing much of it by myself.

Katherine

I need to introduce you two to my number 19. When she calves, you won't get within 100 yards with 10 sacks of feed. Day before that you could have scratched her ears.

 

[randiliana]

It is up to you what you do with this cow. But I do agree, do not turn her out with the herd while hobbled. Give them a few days by themselves hobbled, then remove the hobbles and give them a few more days by themselves unhobbled. After that then turn them out with the herd. If she rejects the calf once they are with the herd, then for sure IMO there is only one place for her. And at that point I wouldn't worry about trying to get her to raise the calf. After all, you can't leave her hobbled for the summer.

Sure, in an ideal world it would be lovely if we never had to touch a cow or a calf. But reality is that once in a while, you ARE going to have to do something with one. IMO, this heifer is probably just a heifer, and they get confused sometimes. At least she wants to mother the calf. In our herd she'd get this one chance.

We had a heifer a couple years ago. She was the wildest of the lot that year. As it turned out DH had to help her, and he managed to assist her out in the big calving pen. So it wasn't much of a pull. Well, as soon as he got that calf out, she was up and gone. So he got the calf up to the barn, into a pen, and then set all the gates up so if he did actually get her up to the barn he could close the gates along the way (he was by himself calving that year). Turned out, he was lucky, got her up on the first try. She went up so fast though that by the time he got up behind her, she had made her circle in the barn and was heading back out. She spent the night in the barn with her calf, never licked him off or anything. So next morning her turned her out into the cull pen. So for a few days he was bottle feeding until we had a different cow lose a calf. Worked for a week or so on that, and it got to the point that when you were standing there, she would let this calf suck. So, we turned them into the back pen (where the culls and problem animals were). And continued to work on them. One day, when the calf was a week or so old, he looked into that pen, and what was going on amazed him. The heifer was standing their and letting her (rejected) calf suck. So we gave them a few days and then turned them out to pasture with the rest of the pairs. She never looked back. She will calve with her 4th calf this year and we have never had a problem with her since. She is still one of our wilder cows, but she has settled down. She was on the long list of culls, but we had enough drys that year that we gave her another chance.

OTOH, we had a heifer calf last year by herself. She loved every calf in the herd, would help mother all the newborns (after she had calved) We had fought with her for a couple weeks before that, she loved her calf, would mother it, lick it, moo at it, all that stuff. But there was no way she was actually going to let a calf suck. After a week or so in hobbles, we gave up on her. Sold the calf, then sold her...

So it is up to you what you do in the end, good luck with her.