cow vs bred heifer...

[cypressfarms]

Hi all,

Went to a local sale at a Brangus ranch at the end of October, and something that I saw still has me puzzled:

The bred heifers (to calf in spring), registered Brangus, brought way more money than the registered cows (3-4 years old) with a seven month old registered calf on their side and bred back to a brangus bull.

Why would someone shell out more than twice the amount of money for a bred heifer than a three in one package with a proven cow. There seems to be the risk of the heifer having calving difficulty, as opposed to a cow who is now carrying her second calf.

The bloodlines were basically the same, and the quality of the heifers and cows were all good. Many of the heifers were previous offspring of some of the 3 in 1 cows.

This makes no sense to me whatsoever. Does anyone understand this, or was this auction that I went to just heifer crazy???

I'm already saving up for next year's auction, if the same thing happens. This one caught me by surprise or I would have bought at least 4 or 5 of the 3 in 1's.

 

[Scotty]

I will give this a try. The heifers is the next generation already alive. The calve inside is the next best thing. New blood, a better mix of older genetics. I have the same questions on why any one would pay 40,000 for a confirmed heifer pregnency. To long a wait for me.


Scotty

 

[Frankie]

Hi all,

Went to a local sale at a Brangus ranch at the end of October, and something that I saw still has me puzzled:

The bred heifers (to calf in spring), registered Brangus, brought way more money than the registered cows (3-4 years old) with a seven month old registered calf on their side and bred back to a brangus bull.

Why would someone shell out more than twice the amount of money for a bred heifer than a three in one package with a proven cow. There seems to be the risk of the heifer having calving difficulty, as opposed to a cow who is now carrying her second calf.

The bloodlines were basically the same, and the quality of the heifers and cows were all good. Many of the heifers were previous offspring of some of the 3 in 1 cows.

This makes no sense to me whatsoever. Does anyone understand this, or was this auction that I went to just heifer crazy???

I'm already saving up for next year's auction, if the same thing happens. This one caught me by surprise or I would have bought at least 4 or 5 of the 3 in 1's.

I see the same thing at Angus sales and it's a mystery to me, too. I think people just like those young, pretty heifers.

 

[cypressfarms]

Scotty and Frankie,

For the life of me I still can't understand it. At this auction the bred heifers were going for anywhere from $4,000 to $10,000 (only one went for $10,000). They were all AI'd and were to calf in Feb. 2006. The 3 in ones that were 3 to 4 years old went from $1500 to $3000. Now there were some older cow 3 in ones that went for very low; but the 3 in ones that I'm talking about had a 700 lb. heifer/bull (registered) along side them and were bred back to some of this farms finest bulls. So that meant to me that if I bought a 3 in 1 with a heifer, I could use the heifer to breed spring 2006, or use the bull calf to start slow breeding as well. Or even sell the bull calf off since he was registered.Then to boot, this coming spring I'll have a new calf on the ground, and probably won't have any calving problems because this would be the second to third calf had by these cows. These are all cattle that are extremely good cattle. It's not that the heifers were any better than the cows.

One old timer there told me that registered cattle like this tend to have a relatively steady value (anotherwords you won't see the highs or lows associated with shifts in the industry). I can't say that I agree with him, but I can't think of any logical or economic reason for this to happen.


Still puzzled.....

 

[txag]

cypress, please don't take offense but i have to ask if you're sure they sold as 3-in-1's? most sales i've been to, if the calf is that old, they'll run 'em in as pairs, but split them & sell the calf first & then the bred cow.

 

[Brandonm2]

I went to a registered Limousin sale once (when beef prices were a lot lower than they are now and I had time to watch sales that I had no intention of bidding on anything in) where the weaned heifers off of the cows were bringing $500 to $1800 MORE than their own mamas (most of whom were still in their primes AND were bred back!!!). I thought some of those heifers were "show prospects" (not a game I know anything about); but they could not all have been prospects. My only guess was that the mamas represented "old" genetics which most of the breeders already had in their herds and the heifer calves represented "new" genetics on the sire end that those breeders wanted in their herds. I come from a commercial background and I don't know everything so there may well be a reason for this that I simply am unable to grasp.

 

[cypressfarms]

txag,

No offense taken, and I've seen splitting like that done at many of the local stockyards, but this was a sale by a Brangus ranch, and he only sold his stock, with the exception of two bulls, so it wasn't like a regular stockyard sale. It was even held at his ranch. He did have a professional auctioneer there, and they stopped the auction when these came through more than once to remind everyone what a bargain these were. It was like the auctioneer didn't want to see these go for that low, but no one was bidding on them. Maybe everyone was there for the bulls and heifers, I dunno.

There were some cow calf pairs that were sold as "pasture exposed" which we all took to mean that the cow was open (if the cow was pregnant, common sense tells you that they would have said it). But even these came with the calves along side them. So at a minimum you got a 3-4 year old registered cow, with a Feb 2005 born calf alongside. Some had bull calves, some heifers. There weren't a lot. I went back through the brochure and counted up the final bid prices on the cows that I would have liked to have and there was 16 total. Only a very small portion of the over 300 head that were sold that day. Maybe these were teasers to get people in, but why weren't more people bidding them up???

 

[cypressfarms]

BrandonM2,

I come from a "commericial" background also. My dad may have had all herefords, or all brangus, but they were never registered. If your theory on the limo sale you went to is true, then I want to buy some "old" genetics; and make some ol money.

 

[txag]

cypress, i was talking about registered sales, too. around here, the salebarns don't run 'em in as pairs. they split 'em as they're unloaded & the cows go one way & the calves go the other. it was just an idea.

otherwise, the only explanation i can give is like the others have said. something about the heifers must have made 'em bring more......bloodlines/pedigree/performance data/breeding info to name a few things or maybe something about the cows caused them to bring less.

 

[Brandonm2]

BrandonM2,

I come from a "commericial" background also. My dad may have had all herefords, or all brangus, but they were never registered. If your theory on the limo sale you went to is true, then I want to buy some "old" genetics; and make some ol money.

I really don't know anything about Limousin bloodlines; but let's do a Hereford example.....
Let's say I have mediocre set of registered Hereford cows. I don't want to insult anybody here so we will call these "Brandon's cows" rather than use any real world examples that may still have descendents in many people's herds. Okay I can go out and buy semen from a desirable AI bull like Remitall Online and breed those cows with. Those resulting heifers would then be Remitall Online daughters INSTEAD of "Brandon's Cows". The guys at the sale can buy those Online heifers and breed them to another popular bull like Felton's Legend 242; then they have a Remitall Online Cow with a Legend calf at side and they have a pair that is worth a LOT more than if they had bought one of "Brandon's Cows". IF you have a nice herd of cows back at the house, why go to a sale and buy a cow that is NOT as good as the heifers you are marketing? For a breeder (who is not just looking for cheap numbers) to buy a cow she has to bring something positive to his herd. Afterall a breeder can just buy commercial momas to use as recipients and flush one of his best cows if he wants numbers. Your Brangus heifers and my Limousin heifers apparently brought more to the table than those cows did (according to the breeders at the sale). I simply do not know enough to tell those breeders they did not know what they were doing.

 

[houstoncutter]

Dont forget folks, we are talking about seedstock producers. Some of em seem to be suffering from a severe case of rectal cranial inversion, most of the time

 

[cypressfarms]

Brandonm2,

I follow your logic, and I'm glad that you explained it because it does make sense if you're trying to get a "genetic jump".

I guess the reason that it is still hard for me to fathom is because the cows all looked very nice, and had big healthy calves alogside them. So from my commericial way of thinking, this is a cow to invest money in because I know what she can produce. The heifer was a gamble to me because I really, at that point, don't know what kind of mother she will be. These were all registered cattle, but I'm the type that believes that registered means they have a piece of paper with them. That paper won't help them be a good moma cow. It may say that they have genetic value out the wazoo, but if they can't wean a good calf, there no use to me.

Your explanation does seem the only likely explanation; there were people from Brangus farms from Texas, Mississippi, and Arkansas there, so they may have been coming for certain genetics to improve their herd.

 

[tapeworm]

Dont forget folks, we are talking about seedstock producers. Some of em seem to be suffering from a severe case of rectal cranial inversion, most of the time

LOL you got that right!!

 

[Aero]

the only reasons i have come up with are:
1) older cows could have been flushed and possibly scarred from the stress of the hormone levels. bred heifers are guaranteed not to have such problems.
2) advanced genetics compared to older cows.
3) longer productive life than 3-4 yr olds