Cow Valley fire

[Dave]

The Cow Valley fire is now nearly 100,000 acres. They managed to save the little community of Brogan. The fire was burning both sides of highway 26 and is now just on the south side. If it didn't burn some of the summer range of the family of our member Lazy RB it had to be mighty close. That ridge to the left of the picture and a lot behind it are now black. And for a long ways to the left of this picture.

 

[kenny thomas]

I know there will be no grazing there this year but will they allow cows back on it next year or how long do they wait? Im assuming its BLM property.

 

[Dave]

I know there will be no grazing there this year but will they allow cows back on it next year or how long do they wait? Im assuming its BLM property.

Some is BLM and some is private. I think it is more private than BLM but not certain. The BLM will be 2 years. The private? Depends on which type of grass and how quick it comes back. The benefit (if there is one) is there will be no sage brush for a lot of years.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

Will they seed it back or let come back on its own ? Maybe it will thin out the Junipers a little bit.

 

[greybeard]

How
Much or how good does the ash (phos) play into forage regrowth after a fire out there? In East Texas burned over areas grow native grass like crazy the next year or two. The area I'm in now is also notorious for being phos deficient.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

How
Much or how good does the ash (phos) play into forage regrowth after a fire out there? In East Texas burned over areas grow native grass like crazy the next year or two. The area I'm in now is also notorious for being phos deficient.

Native grasses read and play by a whole different nutrient manual. The juniper in that area does not resprout and is killed by fire, so if it was present, it should be set back significantly. Alligator juniper down in AZ and NM and that area resprouts after fire, so fire effects are different. I'm really not sure of the effect of the nutrients within the ash. This might have something to do with the flush of growth after some burns. I've always suspected that removal of litter and debris has much more effect by creating a clean slate. Wet springs also have a significant effect in crazy volumes of regrowth.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Will they seed it back or let come back on its own ? Maybe it will thin out the Junipers a little bit.

Likely to thin the junipers there significantly if present. Not likely to seed it as these areas are somewhat fire dependent to maintain a natural balance. Seeding tends to disrupt this process, or isn't usually needed. Crested wheatgrass, the "Golden Grass of the West" has left quite an impression after being seeded to "many" acres out there. It isin't native but it doesn't really spread. It does have incredible 'staying power'.

 

[kenny thomas]

Our Red Cedar, much like the Juniper, is readily killed by fire. The P thats released from the burn seems to control them coming back for years.

 

[Dave]

The parts of this area I know don't have a lot of juniper. But there was plenty of sage. There was a lot more grass back 100+ years ago. Over grazing that occurred in the early 1900's and fighting fires led to a lot of sagebrush and in some areas junipers. Now the areas which have a fire go through there isn't any sage or juniper for decades. I remains to see what species of grass flourish next year. Hopefully it isn't cheat grass.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

The parts of this area I know don't have a lot of juniper. But there was plenty of sage. There was a lot more grass back 100+ years ago. Over grazing that occurred in the early 1900's and fighting fires led to a lot of sagebrush and in some areas junipers. Now the areas which have a fire go through there isn't any sage or juniper for decades. I remains to see what species of grass flourish next year. Hopefully it isn't cheat grass.

As soon as you said (I read) "I remains to see what species of grass flourish next year." I had a 'flashback' of cheatgrass as far as I could see in southern Idaho. Let's hope not.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Our Red Cedar, much like the Juniper, is readily killed by fire. The P thats released from the burn seems to control them coming back for years.

Juniperus virginiana, or eastern juniper, is what you are referring to here. Juniperus occidentalis, or western juniper, is what is present in Oregon. They are actually closely related, and are both junipers. the red 'cedar' is a misnomer and it isn't actually a true cedar. both are readily killed by fire. The eastern juniper/red cedar is an early successional species and gets displaced eventually by later successional species as succession progresses towards a climax community. The western juniper is more of a climax species, although succession doesn't proceed the same in the west as it does in the east. Succession fits more of a 'state and transition' model that ultimately can lead to a variety of different climax communities rather than a single predictable climax community as in the east.

OK, I know. TMI and you probably aren't real interested as it doesn't pertain to much to cattle, but from an understanding of rangeland, grassland and pasture approach, I find it very fascinating.

 

[kenny thomas]

It is in my interest.
Both are readily killed by fire. I can add P to my fields and almost never see a red cedar even though the surrounding farms have lots of them. Even old fence rows that i left shade in has several Red Cedar and always hundreds or even thousands of berries.
Here the berries of the Eastern Red Cedar are used by more species of birds than anything else. No wonder they spread.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

It is in my interest.
Both are readily killed by fire. I can add P to my fields and almost never see a red cedar even though the surrounding farms have lots of them. Even old fence rows that i left shade in has several Red Cedar and always hundreds or even thousands of berries.
Here the berries of the Eastern Red Cedar are used by more species of birds than anything else. No wonder they spread.

Robins are the most responsible for the western juniper as well. The current spread of junipers is unprecedented in all of the records that have been researched over the past several thousand (maybe 60-80?) years. Might be longer. The records come from pollen that has been deposited in sediment layers from lake beds and glacial ice during those time periods. I'm talking all species of junipers, not just the western juniper or eastern juniper/red cedar.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

It is in my interest.
Both are readily killed by fire. I can add P to my fields and almost never see a red cedar even though the surrounding farms have lots of them. Even old fence rows that i left shade in has several Red Cedar and always hundreds or even thousands of berries.
Here the berries of the Eastern Red Cedar are used by more species of birds than anything else. No wonder they spread.

You told me about the P addition to your fields in another thread this past September. I have yet to look into that. It is intriguing.

 

[kenny thomas]

Robins are the most responsible for the western juniper as well. The current spread of junipers is unprecedented in all of the records that have been researched over the past several thousand (maybe 60-80?) years. Might be longer. The records come from pollen that has been deposited in sediment layers from lake beds and glacial ice during those time periods. I'm talking all species of junipers, not just the western juniper or eastern juniper/red cedar.

When they bloom in the spring you can see clouds of pollen floating in the air.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

When they bloom in the spring you can see clouds of pollen floating in the air.

My nose knows as well!

 

[Dave]

A man at church (My attorney's father) has pasture in the area. I wanted to ask him if he had any cows out over there. But someone else was always talking to him. A lot of cows over there and as fast as the fire moved I doubt they could have got them moved out of what burned the first day or two. It is all horse back cow move country. I wouldn't have wanted to be out in front of the monster horseback.

 

[Dave]

A couple of pictures I found on the internet. The note was found on a cooler full of water left at the corral. Ranch neighbors are the best kind.

 

[Travlr]

As soon as you said (I read) "I remains to see what species of grass flourish next year." I had a 'flashback' of cheatgrass as far as I could see in southern Idaho. Let's hope not.

We had a small valley we would hike often, and one year a flock of sheep worked their way through for about a week... and the next several years there was none of the normal grasses, just cheat grass. I don't believe it's recovered yet and it has to be at least five years.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

We had a small valley we would hike often, and one year a flock of sheep worked their way through for about a week... and the next several years there was none of the normal grasses, just cheat grass. I don't believe it's recovered yet and it has to be at least five years.

A single week of grazing shouldn't have that effect if it was only one season, no matter how slicked off it is made. It could be that the system was already dangerously stressed from other factors and this was the straw that sent it over the edge. Unfortunately, complete conversion to cheat grass is one of those 'climax' states within the 'state and transition model' I referred to a couple days ago. On the surface, cheatgrass, which is an annual, doesn't seem more ecologically advanced or adapted than the native, perennial grasses. It is. Cheatgrass is WAY more responsive and adaptive to disturbances. Cheatgrass will produce over 100,000 seeds per square yard per year. Cheatgrass is also known as "gas grass" for its highly flamable characteristics. You can't get rid of the cheatgrass seed. If fire was 99% effective in eliminating a seed crop, (and it isn't, it's way below that) that would leave 1,000 seeds per square yard. More than enough to create an impermeable monoculture. Cheatgrass replacement requires very high amounts of resource input to get rid of it and put something in it's place that is more desirable. I have heard of cheatgrass being replaced 'naturally' though.......by Medusahead. Which is not what you want to hear or have either.