Cow size- again

[cross_7]

I saw this in Frontline beef producer magazine
Do you agree with the theory ?

 

[heath]

I think they might have exaggerated the total numbers, but I do believe that smaller cows are more profitable. At least where I am at.

 

[cross_7]

I think they might have exaggerated the total numbers, but I do believe that smaller cows are more profitable. At least where I am at.

I can see it on the cow calf side
I would be concerned about the calves frame size.
Is a calf from a 1200# cow going be profitable for the feeder and is he going finish at the desired weight ?
I guess the bull would be half of the equation also
I just don't have any knowledge in that area

 

[BC]

Looks to me like they are making a big assumption. They look like they figure all the calves at the same base price and slide the cattle to compensate for the lighter calves which is pretty typical. The big question is how many of those calves out of smaller framed cows will be docked for being "short"? You can avoid that situation by using a larger framed terminal bull, but what do you do for replacement heifers?

 

[Jessica06]

We consider our 1200# cows to be on the large end of our ideal size, probably FS 5.5-6. A lot of them weaned 550-600 pound medium/large framed steers this year. The bulls we used were similar. 1200# is a lot bigger than some people realize.

 

[cross_7]

We consider our 1200# cows to be on the large end of our ideal size, probably FS 5.5-6. A lot of them weaned 550-600 pound medium/large framed steers this year. The bulls we used were similar. 1200# is a lot bigger than some people realize.

Do you know what weight the calves finished out at ?

 

[salebarn junkie]

35 open or calves lost on the 1400 pound high milkers ????

I think they might have exaggerated the total numbers, but I do believe that smaller cows are more profitable. At least where I am at.

 

[cross_7]

35 open or calves lost on the 1400 pound high milkers ????

I think they might have exaggerated the total numbers, but I do believe that smaller cows are more profitable. At least where I am at.

35 fewer due to not being able to keep as many bigger cows(vs smaller) on the same amount of acerage

 

[heath]

This is a 5 month old calf out of a small framed cow. the cow weighs around 1000lbs.

 

[heath]

This black calf is out of the black speckled cow behind him. Shes 1000 on a good day. the calf was born the middle of may. if you are on a phone, you might have to click the pic to see the whole thing.

 

[Jessica06]

We consider our 1200# cows to be on the large end of our ideal size, probably FS 5.5-6. A lot of them weaned 550-600 pound medium/large framed steers this year. The bulls we used were similar. 1200# is a lot bigger than some people realize.

Do you know what weight the calves finished out at ?

No. All of ours are going through the sale barn right now. But based on frame and muscling, they should be on par with the industry. They top the market on whatever day we sell them.

 

[Rahe Family Belties]

In theory this information may be right. I can think of many factors come into play that are not covered in the info provided here.

1.Sire of calves produced- Looks to me like the big calves shown above are all frame score 7 or more for their age.
2.Additional calving problems from smaller cows bred to these big 'terminal' or 'growth' bulls needed to produce these heavy calves?.
3.Are these cows actually milked to determine their daily production, or are they just visually appraised?
4.You'll need more bulls to cover all of the extra cows you can put on your pasture to make the extra $ shown.
5.Is this on grass pasture or are cows supplemented on the pasture?
6.Is actual feed intake measured or just estimated?
7.How are the calves expected to grow for the guy who feeds them? They like to buy them thin and expect them to grow. Won't take long for word to get out if your calves won't grow.
8.Is consideration given to more frequently replacing the heavier milking females culled due to increased udder issues?

Using the assumptions shown above and to take it a step further, a herd of 750 or 800 pound Jersey cross cows bred to a low BW Angus would then outproduce the 1200 cows in the above scenario. You could likely produce a lot of calves on a given acreage, but quality and value would be low. These would be awful hard to sell.

Maybe all of the data is not shown here, but I have a hard time believing I can make more money running smaller cows using just the 'facts' shown in the above chart.

 

[BC]

I was always taught that you could use this formula: FS + 7 X 100 = Mature weight at a BCS of 5 for cows or for a fat steer: FS + 7 X 100 = slaughter weight at 1/2 inch fat over the 12th rib. Using that formula a frame 5 cow should weigh 1200 lbs in a BCS of 5. To move her to a BCS of 6 she would need to weigh 108% of her weight and she would then weigh 1296. Most of us like to see our cows in a BCS of 6 which means that frame size may be smaller than we anticipate. Therefore, if we consider just mature weight, we may be trying to make our cows too small considering the packers are now wanting to slaughter animals in the 1300+ lb range.

The study did not mention what BCS the cows were in.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I think just cow weight is a little too simple. I think you also need to look at BCS and fertility.
Based on weight only my best cow is a bony black that always calves early and probably has some stein in the woodpile...
I cull big cows with average calves first - - but I will also cull a small to medium sized cow if she is a hard keeper and calves late in the season.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The big question is how many of those calves out of smaller framed cows will be docked for being "short"?

Some people really make a big deal out of this, but there should be zero docked calves. You just need to manage the variation:

I have used terminal bulls on small F1 cows, and I did get a couple short calves the first year. I think it just comes with this type of 3 way cross... Now I had two options -- cull the cow that throws shorts, or retain the calf and sell it later for a premium as a grass fed. :banana: I have done both depending on how much I like the cow.

 

[Bigfoot]

Constantly pursuing a terminal cross is tough. Its what i have been doing for a few years now. If I keep my heifers for cows, they end up huge. I have to get out and find heifers. Its tough enough that I only keep heifers every other year, but I gather enough to equal out. I think a 1100 pound cow that milks, and is an easy keeper is the way to go. If I breed for them, my weaning weights suffer.

 

[cross_7]

Constantly pursuing a terminal cross is tough. Its what i have been doing for a few years now. If I keep my heifers for cows, they end up huge. I have to get out and find heifers. Its tough enough that I only keep heifers every other year, but I gather enough to equal out. I think a 1100 pound cow that milks, and is an easy keeper is the way to go. If I breed for them, my weaning weights suffer.

It depends on your climate as well. For my climate there not such thing as an easy keeper that's milks, you try to find a happy medium
Too light on the milk and you have doggy calves
Too heavy on the milk and she gets too poor and won't breed back
Big cows here just don't work here unless you feed them and some do and brag about weaning weights and how they top the sale, but I bet the feed bill eats up a lot of the profit