Cow losing weight

[skyhightree1]

A little chicken pooh will fix that cow right up Sky. :cowboy:

:lol: good one :clap:

She is 9 years old by my records.

How are her teeth holding up?

they seem to be fine to me vet checked her last year said she was good

[quote="Kscattle That sucks I am glad mines not staring me down like that. I have never saw or heard of that before.

 

[Katpau]

I would be greatly concerned about both of the cows in the photo I saw posted by Skyhightree. I have had some heavy milking cows that were hard to keep weight on, but never anything like either of those. I would be curious to see photos of your cows that are in good condition. How long have you been raising beef cattle? Are you comfortable in your knowledge of their nutrient needs? Quantity, quality, minerals needed, or not needed, in your area. Worming, proper vaccinations, for your area?

In the photo there does not appear to be enough growing forage to sustain a rabbit. Have you had your hay tested? Are you positive your hay has the nutrients the cattle need? What was the TDN and the protein? How many pounds are you feeding per animal. Are you sure you're providing enough feed in a manner that prevents substantial waste, so that all animals are able to get their fair share. The cattle I saw in the photo are both well beyond the normal range that I would consider acceptable condition. Do you know their ages? How old is the calf? It is a bad angle, so it is kind of hard to judge him, but he looks like a few groceries would not hurt him either. I like my breeding cattle to fall between a 4 and 6 for condition score, but these look like a 2. Here is some information on scoring condition.

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare ... 283web.pdf

You might try getting some education in cattle nutrition from your University extension if that is available in your area.

 

[skyhightree1]

I would be greatly concerned about both of the cows in the photo I saw posted by Skyhightree. I have had some heavy milking cows that were hard to keep weight on, but never anything like either of those. I would be curious to see photos of your cows that are in good condition. How long have you been raising beef cattle? Are you comfortable in your knowledge of their nutrient needs? Quantity, quality, minerals needed, or not needed, in your area. Worming, proper vaccinations, for your area?

In the photo there does not appear to be enough growing forage to sustain a rabbit. Have you had your hay tested? Are you positive your hay has the nutrients the cattle need? What was the TDN and the protein? How many pounds are you feeding per animal. Are you sure you're providing enough feed in a manner that prevents substantial waste, so that all animals are able to get their fair share. The cattle I saw in the photo are both well beyond the normal range that I would consider acceptable condition. Do you know their ages? How old is the calf? It is a bad angle, so it is kind of hard to judge him, but he looks like a few groceries would not hurt him either. I like my breeding cattle to fall between a 4 and 6 for condition score, but these look like a 2. Here is some information on scoring condition.

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare ... 283web.pdf

You might try getting some education in cattle nutrition from your University extension if that is available in your area.

That was all my cows I paid 5k each for those the guy said they were the cream of the crop pair. I didn't know I was supposed to do all of that for cows I just thought you let them roam free range and find their own forage. I greatly appreciate you bringing all this to my attention I never would have known that. Surely someone smart as you are read the whole post from beginning to end and saw the ages of cow in question. I sure am glad you joined and posted to give me all that date and question me. I guess the veterinarian I use is worthless are you for hire ? :lol2:

 

[highgrit]

My cows are thin and won't eat my crappy hay. Hopefully the grass will come on. I will post some pictures when they fatten up. This has been a bad winter for my cows. I guess we'll have to grind some more feed. The cows eat the hay good once it's mixed with cotton seed meal, corn and high protein mineral.

 

[skyhightree1]

Hg I gotta say this has been the worst year and worst body conditions I ever had due to all the snow and rough winter we had here its crazy I never saw my whole herd loose weight. Then staying in constant 17 degree and below weather and all that snow really puts a toll on them I wish I had a big shelter to house them in and they would be good to go.

 

[Rajela]

Hg I gotta say this has been the worst year and worst body conditions I ever had due to all the snow and rough winter we had here its crazy I never saw my whole herd loose weight. Then staying in constant 17 degree and below weather and all that snow really puts a toll on them I wish I had a big shelter to house them in and they would be good to go.

You better get with the program..LOL... :2cents:

 

[Lucky_P]

Some 'outside reading' that might be enlightening for some of you folks:

http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/be ... heHoof.pdf
Scroll down to Dr. Lehmkuhler's article predicting what many of us have seen this winter - nutritional quality of 2013 hay, in a lot of places, was lacking.
Sometimes, there is just not enough digestible energy or protein to meet a cow's basic metabolic needs, particularly if temps are cold, and weather conditions are wet.

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/liv ... 07-001.htm
Effects of cold stress on cattle. Check out the info on 'low critical temperature' and the increased nutritional needs associated with conditions below LCT.

Cow nutrition affects calf survival:
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewc ... eefcowsymp
http://www.angusbeefbulletin.com/extra/ ... ition.html

Looking at those photos, they look like the 'starving kind', not just 'hard-keeping'.
I see - and have seen, in spades, this winter - way too many of those types. Often it's due to ignorance or lack of observation on the part of the owner - they've fed this way for years and never had a problem - and can't believe that even though they've got 'hay' out for the cows, that if the nutritional content is not sufficient for age, stage of production, and environmental conditions, that cows can actually starve to death with a rumen full of poor nutritional-quality hay, if they're not receiving adequate energy/protein supplementation.
Most years, I see some old toothless 'grannies', heavily pregnant or nursing a big calf, that just 'run out of gas' with green grass right around the corner - but this year, I was seeing solid-mouthed young cows - and weanling to yearling-age calves - essentially starving to death with a belly full of what looked like decent hay - as early as December. Without forage testing, we really don't know what the nutritional content of those harvested/stored forages is.

My fall-calving herd was hit pretty hard this winter; we were feeding ~ 27# hay/hd/day and 3# DDG/hd/day. When I started seeing 'starve-outs' coming through the diagnostic lab, back in late December, I took a realistic look at my cows, and realized that some of ours were in not much better condition. So... we increased hay and DDG levels by at least 50%, and most regained 1 or 2 body condition scores before we turned them out to grass a month or so ago - but some of them still look pretty rough.

 

[greybeard]

We were just dang lucky here in my area that the winter following 2011's drought was not nearly as severe as this winter was, or I would have been in the same boat as you folks are now. We don't get yall's low temps or snow, but ours don't grow as much hair as yours do either.
"Adequate" hay here in mid 2012 and 2013 was hay available cheap everywhere within 100 miles of me. Still lots for sale, I will probably go ahead in the next month, and buy some 2013 surplus hay that has been barn kept "just in case" drought shows it's face this year. So far tho, it's been a wet spring.

 

[skyhightree1]

GB been super wet here we sprayed all weekend and planted some corn maybe30 acres and so far rain gauge says 1 inch today but my pastures and hay fields are really coming along.

 

[greybeard]

Too early for me to spray for weeds--I'd have to do it again in another month when the goatweed starts.
I got 1.75" Saturday morning and drizzle all last night. Looks like sunny weather this week tho.

 

[Katpau]

I did not mean to offend with my last post. Before I began testing, I also had cows that lost condition in a dramatic way in certain years and at certain times of the year. If you don't test, you have no idea what nutrients are missing, nor which ones are adequate. You can waste money on supplements you did not need, or you might be missing essential nutrients. Worming, minerals, and vaccinations can be important, but they will never replace proper nutrition. In dry years, or years with unusual and extreme temperature conditions, testing is even more important. it is nearly impossible to feed a cow properly when you don't know exactly what you are feeding. For example too much protein can have as severe an effect as too little. (Atkins diet) It is possible that your hay or alfalfa is adequate in protein, but deficient in TDN (total digestible nutrients). The alfalfa I bought last year to supplement my hay in winter, looked great coming off the truck. I tested it and found that protein was at 18%, but TDN was only .53. Get your feed tested and then talk to your Vet or a nutritionist familiar with feeding cattle to get some advice on what you can do to help these cows. There may be courses available through your extension that would be very helpful to you. I try to take a course every few years and I belong to a forage group that meets monthly at various ranches where we walk through members pastures and discuss our successes and failures. I am in no position to teach myself, but I am continuously learning. The Other members of this group run anywhere from 50 to several thousand head of cows and many also run sheep, goats or both. One member runs over 10,000 stockers. We have a mediator with a degree in animal nutrition from Cornell who runs the group, but all of the best information comes from the experience in the group.

I hope you will listen to Lucky P. It is possible to starve a cow to death, even when she has plenty of feed in front of her. If you test your feed and have your feeding program analyzed by someone with the proper credentials, it will enable you to determine if these cows are receiving the nutrients they need. If they are, than I would cull the cows in that photo. There is something more than too much milk causing this. I suspect you might find out, like I did, that you can put weight on these cows with some changes in your feeding program.

 

[skyhightree1]

Same here looking good for the rest of the week we were spraying round up on row crop fields I will start with the old faithful 2,4d at the beginning of may.

 

[skyhightree1]

Katpau no offense taken at all. I guess in some ways I am old school to the point where if a cow can't survive on my pastures and hay they need a new home elsewhere. I have good pastures not the best and if their is a couple scraglers that can't get it together they are the problem if everyone else is doing well. The vets come out and care for my cattle when they are sick and or when I need something done that I don't have time to do which is often. I make sure to keep minerals available at any given time I don't want one to starve to death but if they are to stay on my place they better adapt to my forages or grow wheels. These cows that I have that loose weight once the calf is gone in a month they are fat and sassy again its odd but I think with the ages I will cart them off soon as the calf is weaned in a few more months.

 

[Katpau]

I totally agree that a cow that can't make it on my pastures needs to be gone. I am in my 60's and kind of old school myself. We have some pretty poor pastures and not all cattle can make it here. We seldom have rain from mid June through mid September and our pastures dry up to where they are almost worthless. I wean the end of August and cows can survive on that poor dry grass until about December when they hit the last trimester of pregnancy. At that point I need to start feeding hay and sometimes other supplements. I use to just guess about what they needed, and sometimes they looked great and sometimes not so much. Someone talked me into taking a course in cattle nutrition about 15 years ago. As part of the course we tested our soils and forages. We used the forage tests to calculate a ration. I found that the $25 test ended up saving me money when purchasing and feeding hay. I would sometimes just throw extra alfalfa at cows that were under weight. If the problem was not due to protein, I found I was just spending more money and sometimes even making the problems worse.

 

[fitz]

Hg I gotta say this has been the worst year and worst body conditions I ever had due to all the snow and rough winter we had here its crazy I never saw my whole herd loose weight. Then staying in constant 17 degree and below weather and all that snow really puts a toll on them I wish I had a big shelter to house them in and they would be good to go.

The weather hasn't been a picnic for sure. I run some wet cows in the winter here also. You have to stay on top of things because if they start going south in severe conditions with a calf on them you'll be hard pressed to get them back on track.

Mine aren't coddled, but If that girl pictured were mine the calf would be the first thing to go. She still may need some help getting any condition back. She's got quite a ways to go. If a calf alone takes that kinda toll I couldn't use her.

fitz

 

[skyhightree1]

Hg I gotta say this has been the worst year and worst body conditions I ever had due to all the snow and rough winter we had here its crazy I never saw my whole herd loose weight. Then staying in constant 17 degree and below weather and all that snow really puts a toll on them I wish I had a big shelter to house them in and they would be good to go.

The weather hasn't been a picnic for sure. I run some wet cows in the winter here also. You have to stay on top of things because if they start going south in severe conditions with a calf on them you'll be hard pressed to get them back on track.

Mine aren't coddled, but If that girl pictured were mine the calf would be the first thing to go. She still may need some help getting any condition back. She's got quite a ways to go. If a calf alone takes that kinda toll I couldn't use her.

fitz

she definately has some pretty calves that are quick growers I hate to see her go but I don't want to loose money on the cow if she happened to die next time I will breed her back and take her to the sale barn

 

[branguscowgirl]

Sky lets see some pictures of your other cattle. Like Lucky said, those two are starving. I personally don't think that calf looks like it has much weight on it either..........If that is the case, maybe what you are feeding really isn't as good as you think it might be. Just my thoughts.

 

[skyhightree1]

Sky lets see some pictures of your other cattle. Like Lucky said, those two are starving. I personally don't think that calf looks like it has much weight on it either..........If that is the case, maybe what you are feeding really isn't as good as you think it might be. Just my thoughts.

I told you all I only have 2 those were it. Yes I am starving them no one told me you had to feed them I figured they could find their own food. If you want to see pictures you are on here as much as I am do some searches find the pics. Until I see a Cattle Police badge I got nothing to prove so you or anyone else that wants pics I would say start searching there is some on here even videos so lets see if you can search as well as you pester :tiphat: :wave:

 

[branguscowgirl]

Sky lets see some pictures of your other cattle. Like Lucky said, those two are starving. I personally don't think that calf looks like it has much weight on it either..........If that is the case, maybe what you are feeding really isn't as good as you think it might be. Just my thoughts.

I told you all I only have 2 those were it. Yes I am starving them no one told me you had to feed them I figured they could find their own food. If you want to see pictures you are on here as much as I am do some searches find the pics. Until I see a Cattle Police badge I got nothing to prove so you or anyone else that wants pics I would say start searching there is some on here even videos so lets see if you can search as well as you pester :tiphat: :wave:

Well, actually you said that you only had one thin cow, until people started commenting that the other one was thin also.......
I was not looking to argue with you, I could actually careless! You posted a concern and asked for comments. Hide your darn cattle behind the barn if you don't want to know what people think!
As for pictures, old ones aren't going to tell us anything. The discussion was what was happening to them here and now after the bad winter. But as I said, who cares! You don't seem to!

 

[highgrit]

Jeez, don't get your pants in a wad Sky. I hope she was trying to help. I just hoping all mine will make it to the green grass. Our cows look worse than I have ever seen them. But they all made it besides the one that prolapsed. And everyone bred back on the first try so far, and all within 10 weeks of calving. So do you sell your good cows or try and make it through? I am going to make it through and do the best that I can. After all their only animals, my kids come first.