Cow/Calf Weaning Weight Ratios

[J+ Cattle]

I just curious how many people weigh their cattle at weaning and record the calf's weight and the cow's weight to see what percentage of the cow's weigh she weans off as a calf.

Example:
Cow #1 weighs 1250 lbs at weaning time and her calf weighs 590 lbs. 590/1250 * 100 = 47.2
The calf is 47.2% of the cow's weight

Cow #2 weighs 1600 lbs at weaning time and her calf weighs 690 lbs. 690/1600 * 100 = 43.1
The calf is 43.1% of the cow's weight

Even though Cow #2 has a calf that is 100 lbs heavier and we sell pounds across the scale is she doing as good of a job as Cow #1?
I know some people like large cows but I would say that in the case of this example the smaller cow is providing a better return. If you had to cull one due to drought and there were no other reasons for culling which one would you keep and which one would you cull?
I know my answer but I'm curious of other's opinions and if they go to the trouble to weigh their cattle to perform this simple calculation.

J+ Cattle

 

[Dave]

That doesn't happen here simply because of the time to individually weigh several hundred cows and calves. Cows tend to be relatively unitform. We simply don't have 1,600 pound cows. The summer environment here doesn't support them. Virtually everyone gives the same ear tag number to calves as their mother. If calf #206 is in the dink pen that cow is suspect. That happens again the cow is gone.

 

[SBMF 2015]

If you early wean at all, you can throw out the idea that a cow will wean talk her body weight. I like the school of thought that a finished str needs to weigh as much as his dam. If a cow can't give you the potential for this, she isn't doing her job.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Dickenson ND published some data about 5 years ago on weaning weight percentage. They split their cows into 100# size classes, and also bred some cows Lowline, to have a wide range of cow sizes. Based on several years of data - - they sold their heaviest cows because % aside, the medium sized cows actually had weaned bigger calves than the heaviest cows.

So 1600# cows don't work in the northern plains either. Don't need to weigh anything to learn that.

 

[Stocker Steve]

We simply don't have 1,600 pound cows. The summer environment here doesn't support them.

Need more corn...

I toured several MN seed stock operation one summer. One had several blue silos full of corn silage and were supplementing pairs on pasture daily. High weaning weights but I did not buy a bull.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

If you chase percent of mother's weight as a goal for the weaning weight of the calf there is a good chance you will eventually
end up with very large high maintenance mothers . High year weight EPD's on the bull can also produce high percentage weaning
weights however; it can still result in large high maintenance mothers. [This is if one is retaining replacement heifers from within the herd]
It is more advantageous to me to have as many calves as possible in the first 30 days of the calving period and grow the weight as
opposed to breeding the weight on. >I read Steve after I typed this and I agree with Steve<

 

[Stocker Steve]

If you lease on $/pair/day, then you may want some of those 1600# cows.
Otherwise, need to get to pounds grown per acre since land is very expensive.

 

[GoWyo]

You need to account for the body condition score of the cow too. Grass has been strong this year so my cows are in BCS 5.5 to 6.0 and will be carrying some condition at weaning. Probably none will wean 50% this year.

Anyway, the only cows I have time to weigh are the culls as they go through the sale barn. The keepers all get fed the same and have to perform or we'll find out what they weigh.

 

[Brute 23]

This is interesting to me. I love spread sheeting data and using it to trend performance. I chart my lbs of gain from birth to weaning. Adding in the percentage would be another great tool although it would add alot of work and cost. Not sure it would justify itself.

Right now I kind of just roughly break the cows down to small medium and large. If I see a large lb/d gain but it's off a large cow I just consider that normal. I'm looking for outliers mainly which would be a large cow with medium calf or small cow with above avg growth.

 

[Stocker Steve]

You need to account for the body condition score of the cow too. Grass has been strong this year so my cows are in BCS 5.5 to 6.0 and will be carrying some condition at weaning. Probably none will wean 50% this year.

Good point. Body condition is important for longevity. Chasing higher weaning weight percent will usually lead you to either moderate efficient cows (think thick and less than 1300#) or thin heavy milking cows (think stein).

 

[BFE]

Need more corn...

I toured several MN seed stock operation one summer. One had several blue silos full of corn silage and were supplementing pairs on pasture daily. High weaning weights but I did not buy a bull.

Had an opportunity to buy some registered angus pairs a couple years ago. The owner told me the cows weighed 1800. He then said he can't sell a bull from a 1400 pound cow. Needless to say, I passed.

 

[BFE]

And went and bought a bull from a 1400 pound cow.

 

[FungusProudKY31]

It is a self-fulfilled prophesy - you will develop a herd of small frame and high milk cows if your ultimate goal is most or all calves calves at +50% of dam's adjusted weight at weaning. You will win on paper and lose on market value.

 

[Brute 23]

It is a self-fulfilled prophesy - you will develop a herd of small frame and high milk cows if your ultimate goal is most or all calves calves at +50% of dam's adjusted weight at weaning. You will win on paper and lose on market value.

How will you lose on market value?

 

[Dave]

How will you lose on market value?

Small framed calves out of those small frame cows.

 

[Brute 23]

Small framed calves out of those small frame cows.

What percentage of of the cow size do you see or want to see at weaning?

 

[bird dog]

It sounds like you would have to wean every calf at the same age day wise to get an accurate reading. Also they would need to be born close to the same time of year so your forage swings wouldn't matter.

I use lbs of gain from birth to weaning same as Brute does. I know my fall calves are not going to gain like my spring calves but they usually sell into a stronger market to make up the difference in total value.

 

[Dave]

What percentage of of the cow size do you see or want to see at weaning?

This is pretty tough country on cows. Hiking up and down the hills and walking a mile or more to water keeps cows on the thrifty side. Calves come out of the hills hard not fleshy. Most cows here run about 1,200. Put them on flat green pasture they would weigh 1,300 in a hurry. Neighbor sold two pot loads of steer calves. They based the weight at 575. So a little under 50%. But that is the top end of the steers. Heifers will be lighter and they will have 100 or so steers that don't make that top end.

 

[GoWyo]

I use the AAA's Maternal Plus whole herd reporting. Each calf will have a weight per day of age, adjusted 205 WW and the salebbulls and replacement heifers will have adjusted YW, and if we get to it carcass scan data as well. All calves go into the same whole herd contemporary groups by sex unless their DOB is an outlier causing a different group. I get a pretty good idea where each cow is performing over time.

 

[J+ Cattle]

I recently added scales in the alleyway right before the squeeze chute so my plan is to weigh everything as it goes through for shots, deworming, etc. so not really any extra work. I'm not taking weights anytime they aren't already headed through the chute. For me the thing that I'm looking for isn't if the cow weans a certain percentage like 50% of her weight, rather I'm looking to see which cows are the poorest performers. Which ones weans the lowest percentage of her weight? It isn't uncommon to have cows in the same herd that vary in weight by 250 lbs, if the smallest and the largest cows wean a calf that weighs the same I would say that the larger cow isn't working as hard as the smaller cow. I would expect the larger cow to have a calf that is about 100 lbs. heavier than the smaller cow.

GoWyo uses the Maternal Plus program to track 205 day adjusted weaning weights but you can do it yourselves if you have a place to weigh the calves. I use an Excel spreadsheet program called Cowboss that was put out as a free download by the Manitoba Agriculture and Food. This will show adjusted weaning and yearling weights for each calf and show the ratios of how the calves compare to each other in the contemporary grouping. I'm wanting to take it a step further and look also at the cows weight because I would expect a large cow to wean a heavier calf but is she giving enough to make up for her increased feed intake?

Bottom line is there are many cattle raisers in drought stricken areas that are having to get rid of cows they would normally keep, does anybody look at these type of evaluations to determine which cows go to the sale and which ones stay for another year?

J+ Cattle