cow-calf operation

[uscangus]

i tried looking in the "search" for cow-calf production in regards the advantages and disadvantages, pitfalls, and cost-containment such forage, machinery, and cost of bred-cow.

I started the cow-calf operation instead of raising first year yearling due to costs and time and took the excellent advices from Bez , dunn and so on. Our slaughter cows are selling about 50-55wt at the auction. i bought black angus bred cows that ranges weight of 1300-1400lbs and purchase them from $650-$710 with sire of black bull with BCS of 5-6. the ages of dam is from 4-7, meaning third calving and up. Most the bred cows were purchased due to insufficient hay forages from private sector with too many cows and calves. the calf would have paid for the dam by summer.

I elected that time, costs, and calving problems were too much and with a full time practice. it would have been a train wreck. my plan is to start with 13 bred cows that are due end of january thru march. then, sell the calves by late July and place the future proceed to purchase more bred cows about 12-17 bred cows that would calve feb thru march.

i plan to let the lactating cows and calves to take advantage of the rich april pasture (spring) to keep my feed low. I have 2 sections(25 acreages per section) to graze. the other 2 sections will be utilize for hay production. Each sections will provide two cuts and each cut will produce 1800 two string bale hays because of rain and irrigations. I know that i have sufficient forage during spring, summer,and winter feed. hence, i would not need to purchase grain except protein and minerals blocks.

to keep my costs low, i hire someone to cut, rake, and bale my forage. with very little number cows by the end of year of 25-30, purchasing machineries will not be cost effective. So far, my children assist me in feeding the cow in winter. Eventually, i will make a chute and corral to facilitate the vet's works place .

I think 50 bred-cows will be the magic number to purchase machineries with marsh mellow balers that are 300-400lbs to keep cost down and to be efficient.

besides the cost of purchasing the cows and future machinery, the only costs would be a vet and his work. Eventually, I will learn to administer the "shots" with the vaccines and banding once we make a chute or purchase a chute. hopefully, those are the only costs that i could contemplate. the place has a large barn that could place 60 adult cows and 40 young cows or calves. the barn could hold more than 2000 bale hays and have four large garages that could hold 4 planes or heavy machineries. it was an existing farm since 1860. the only new cost that i made was placing new five string 4 point barb wire with strong posts and t- posts.

I tried to run this new business like my two practices. Keep it small with very little over head or financing. baby steps................ i really enjoy the life of farming, knowing where the foods come from. seeing my first calf from the cow. being simple in life, enjoying the outdoor, and being physically active are the key to life. especially, enjoying what you are doing.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Congratulations - it is a great lifestyle.
FIRST thing you need to do is build yourself a WORK facility. Should have work facility in order BEFORE you have livestock - but,---- I would suggest having that your very next project - BEFORE calving. What if one cow needs assistance?? do you currently have a way to contain her & have a vet assist her. Even tho a cow is bred to an easy calving bull - bad things can happen - like a leg back, head back, breech, twins tangled, ---- lots can go wrong. Be sure to locate a vet ASAP that will come to your farm. You don't want to wait until you NEED one.
If I read your post correctly - you have 50 acres of pasture? I don't remember where you are located, but you will be hard pressed to maintain 50 COWS on 50 acres of pasture. As you say, take baby steps. The worse thing you can do is overstock your land.
So you now have 13 bred cows due end Jan - March? Why would you plan on selling the calves in July? They will only be 5 months of age.
What are you referring to "marsh mellow balers"? I call the bales that are "baleage" (wet hay) single wrapped "marsh mellows" - but they weight 1000 - 1500#??? You need heavier equipment (tractor with front-end loader) to handle them.

 

[uscangus]

I have total of 100 acreages and separated into 4 sections. the two sections will be utilize for hay production and the other two will be used in grazing. I read some articles that some companies make 400lbs marsh mellow or "wet baleage". i know that i will end up acquiring at least 90hp for mowing and making bales. the reason why i look into 400lbs is it easier to work with than 1000lbs or more and less dangerous.

i am in the state of Washington on the western side where we receive plenty of rain. this spring i will plant white clover with perennial rye grass on one section of the pasture. i know that the cattle cannot graze until next year. I am going to use a machine that is no till where the seed is in place. I have kept this land chemical free at least 5 years. I have irrigation pipes already under the pasture and need just riser and pipes to place the water for summer of july and august.

i have a close friend who is a vet. my concern will be when the calf is too big or backward (or breech position). i know the aspect of epd in regard how dam and sire can influence the calf bw. Eventually, i will have to do AI with a cleaning bull when the herd get that big. But, I have some friends who has black angus bull with low bw with better success rate of AI (usually 60-70 PER CENT RATE).

in any calving, there is that chance of breech position or backward position where a vet is urgently needed. remember, i am going with baby step. i respect the board advices with their utmost respect and endless and value experiences. thank you Jeanne-Simme Valley for your generous response and advice.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Yes, I understood you had 50 acres pasture & 2 paddocks for hay. But, can your area sustain 1 pair of cows per 1 acre?
You didn't address my question of selling calves in July? Did you have a special reason to wean & sell so early?

 

[rockridgecattle]

I agree with Jeanne, you need some sort of working facility, and before calving.
You need to ask your local ag extension office or some local cattle producers what their average stocking rate is, and how many #'s of hay or silage per winter you need to winter a cow. This will give you an idea of what you need to winter the cows you want and what you can handle in summer pasture.

Since the majority of us have seen droughts or too much rain, alot of us have learned to not over stock so that the need to buy hay is greatly reduced. So ask your local producers what the stocking rates are like on poor years.

Do not forget to include such things in your budget as:

loose mineral
salt
vet expenses
vaccinations
accounting fees
mantenance costs to maintain what equipment you will have
fuel costs
any seeding you plan to do

Then when you are finished compliling your numbers on the expenses side, add 20% for the things you forgot, price increases, and incedentals
Then when you are figuring on you income, low ball the calf crop selling price. So if you figure you will get 650 for your steers, go for 500.00 This way you can keep your budget in line. You also are prepared if the market tanks...again... Last year we budgeted 500 for steers and 450 for heifers.

Lastly, you mentioned that your calves will pay for your cows in the first year...good luck with that one. I dare say you will be lucky that the calves pay for the upkeep of the cows each year.

Where we live, the provincial gov estimated (and my numbers were out by $50.00 on this) the cost to keep a cow per year. 2008 numbers were $495.00 to keep a cow. This included all feed, custom cut and baled, or o/o cut and baled, vet bills, office expense etc. This number did not include loan payments, labour, and depreication. To include that the cost was near or just over the $700.00 mark. For the 2009 year the costs were up $50.00 dollars.

So if you get $500-$550 for a steer, you subtract the 2009 cost (not including loans, depreciation, labour) of $545.00 and you are in the either in the hole $45.00 or to the good $5.00, depending what you get for your steer. Heifers are always lower, and they will not cover the costs of keeping a cow at this point in the market.

Everyone who gets started in cattle seem to think that the cow will pay for itself the first year when the calf is sold. They forget the costs that are incurred to get that calf to market to pay for the upkeep of the cow on a yearly basis.

Good luck with your new venture

 

[uscangus]

thanks Jeanne for your generous response, I have watched the price of beef since last year and attended the auction almost 2-3x a month to see the priced alter. Usually, the price plummeted in October but was hoping to sell by end of July or early mid- August. I noticed the best price to buy bred-cows are usually mid-to-end of October in my area before winter.

 

[uscangus]

also, Jeanne, our rains give us plenty of irrigation. depending of the forage, you could have one acreage per cow or probably two cows. our winter is not harsh. we do not have much snow and usually 6-8 inches per year but usually washes out. most of my neighbors have 100 acreages with 200 cows with baleage. but he has to feed more to produce more milk;whereas, beef cattle usually 20-30 lbs per day of consumption. Our areas are usually green from spring to end of october. I only have to winter feed from november to end of feb. By march, we have sunshine with slight rain to water the pasture and heat the grass. this state is called evergreen state.

 

[uscangus]

thanks rockridgecattle for your excellent advices and the breakdown of fixed and variable expenses, the farm is a write off for my practices and the cattle was supposed to be a deductions. eventually, i read a lot of articles and journals of raising first year heifer vs bred-cow and fell in love with the idea. i did not want to plant any green vegetables because of labor intensities and fixed or sunken costs such as machinery and labor costs compared to beef cattle with its vet and a labor person costs. the profit margin would have been small and labor intensities would have been nightmare. i wanted a simple life in beef cattle compared planting corn, peas, and beans. my neighbor does that and he is always with his machineries with laborers. on top that, he has to constantly water or irrigate his fields. i wanted and simple life with good physical activity compare to my present job in the office practice, being inactive. also, i wanted my children to be aware where food come from and learn how till the soil. and, to be outdoor.

 

[rockridgecattle]

i think you missed my point but that is ok

When i talked about seeding, you mentions planting clover in your pastures...that was the cost i was refering to.

Read Storeys book on raising beef cattle. If you are wanting health calves, as we all do, you need to read up on nutrition, minerals, salt, colostrum quality and quantity, scours, bvb, breed back, etc. It may be a tax write off but you still need the $ to keep cows.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Obviously, you have been researching this - that is great. Going into with your eyes wide open. Yes, it is absolutely the best way to raise kids!
One expense not mentioned, which is quite large is - fertilizer.

 

[AngusLimoX]

One expense not mentioned, which is quite large is - fertilizer.

Which can vary widely depending on location. Where are you usc?

Expect to lose real money ( not make believe or income tax relieved ) for a few years at least.
Expect some costly unplanned for occurrences and your farm to grow at half the rate you expect.
The locals in your area largely do certain things for a reason, find out as much as you can the way those around you do things before you break the mold.

 

[uscangus]

Yes,rockridgecattle, i have read the latest book of Storey's book and other books. In regard to seeding and fertilizers jeanne and rockridgcattle, i can get 100lbs of rye grass seed in oregon , the seed capital in northwest for 0.35ct per 100lbs. the local farm store is charging $45 per 25lbs. In regard to clover, i am planning to use white clover for protein than alfalfa for this section and the price is again fairly low due wholesale price. In regard to no till, they are charging $10 per acreage. If more than 30 acreages, it is $8 per acre. Since i am letting the old owner use half of my utility garage for free since 2004, i am able to use his 65 hp with a front loader, brush hog, and auger. he was the one who help me install railroad tyes as a post for free(labor) . Hence, i am not in hurry to purchase heavy machinery. i have a small utility tractor to clean the manure in the barn and move dirt around.

Every time i purchase cows, the person who deliver the cattle from the auction or private vendor will dewormed and give the vaccine. he has been in the business almost 50 years and lease 50 bulls in my area. Eventually, once i have chute, corral, and maternity area for cow near calving, i will be able to monitor and to administer the vaccines and so on....., but with my size of cows, being newbie, and the lethargic economy, i am not to hurry to be big. baby step.

In regard to fertilizer, my neighbors will be able to spread cow manures. I am the only beef cattle in my area, the others are three dairy cows with a minimum of 100 plus to 300 cows. the other is sheep that make special cheese to local restaurants and specialize retail stores. I inquires about chicken manure and the cost of spreading manure is about $1400 per 25 acreages. the cow manure is much cheaper since it is so abundant in my area.

Since i am a dentist, I am able to purchase lower cost, such as needle, vaccine, antibiotic, surgical blade,iv, and so on.............. like the farm store in bulk where i have ordered in the past for my supplies from SCHEIN, which sell soft and hard equipment and supplies to medical, dental, and vetenerian at a lower cost than to retail. since i have ordered from them for 15 years, i am able to NEGOTIATE and leverage lower prices.

 

[uscangus]

yes, anguslimox, i graduated from USC for my dental degree and was a former instructor. but, after practicing for 20 years, i take farming and raising cattle than practicing. i am more active and enjoy life. the smell of cow manure and waiting for cow to calve-it is greatest feeling.

 

[smallrancher]

and let me clarify for all the experts, 50 cows on 100 acres is 1 cow per 2 acres, NOT 1 cow per acre.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Clover cuts my fertilizer cost significantly so it is good you are using it.

 

[greatgerts]

and let me clarify for all the experts, 50 cows on 100 acres is 1 cow per 2 acres, NOT 1 cow per acre.

That is true, BUT uscangus said that 50 acres is for hay and 50 acres is for pasture. I take that as the cows will only be on 50 acres, so 50 cows on 50 acres of pasture = 1 cow/acre.

 

[Hoppy72450]

Yeah it is 50 cows and 50 pasture acres..BUT he said he was cutting on 50 acres so that also I am guessing is going to the cows to so really its 50 cows for 100 acres right ?

 

[backhoeboogie]

Mine get rotated regularly. It must be a real high stocking rate around here when they are in the smaller pastures. There is other pasture dedicated to hay production. This sustains the same cows.

You put it all together, and that's how many acres it takes to sustain the amount of cows you are running. No matter how you manage your rotation, you have X number of head on X number of acres to sustain the herd for a year. Be it hay or grazing or whatever.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Well, normally, when talking how many acres/cow - they refer to grazing acres per cow - you can also discuss year-around food acreage per cow.
Caution - please check with your local extension about the prevalence of Johnes Disease in your area - or maybe your local dairy farmers are tested Johnes "Free" - which I kinda doubt. This disease spreads thru the manure.
In my area/state, I would never allow dairy manure on my land.

 

[Brandonm22]

Mine get rotated regularly. It must be a real high stocking rate around here when they are in the smaller pastures. There is other pasture dedicated to hay production. This sustains the same cows.

You put it all together, and that's how many acres it takes to sustain the amount of cows you are running. No matter how you manage your rotation, you have X number of head on X number of acres to sustain the herd for a year. Be it hay or grazing or whatever.

Still it is a lot more intensive to have 50 cows on a 100 acres that is also producing 50 acres of hay, than it is to run 50 cows on a 100 acres and buy your hay.