covid

[sstterry]

I will go out on a limb here just for the purpose of discussion. Is it "better" for a person to vote strictly by party in all races as opposed to looking at the relative merits of all/both candidates in each race? Do the parties bring any value to the process? Would we be better off if there were no parties - just individuals running for an office?

For the record, I am against the elimination of the birthday party. The others - I am not sure.

"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism….In governments purely elective, [a spirit of party is] not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose; and there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume." George Washington warning against the two party system.

 

[Ky hills]

Just my pondering, but I think our two party system has served well, but now the system is being stressed. Both the Left and the right are increasingly getting entrenched farther and farther out on the political spectrum and fewer folks in the moderate categories. I think that the middle is where most of the work has been accomplished with members on each side coming to compromise on a range of issues. With the movement to the far right and far left there is little interest in even settling for compromise but rather becoming entrenched in ideology and not willing to budge on anything it's almost like everybody wants whole hog or nothing. The way the two party system is working now it's that the respective voter bases are so divided that they are voting for the farthest candidates in the primaries a lot of times thus pushing out more moderate candidates. I'm not sure I want to see it play out but I believe there are probably at least 2 more parties that could emerge. With 4 parties I don't know what it would look like congress wise maybe something like the governing systems in other countries that form coalitions when voting.

 

[sstterry]

I'm curious though, in the US electoral system, if there was a 3rd party that got enough electoral college votes so that neither of the other parties could get to 270, what would happen? theoretically it's possible the two parties would even be tied.

A candidate must receive an absolute majority of electoral votes (currently 270) to win the presidency or the vice presidency. If no candidate receives a majority in the election for president or vice president, that election is determined via a contingency procedure established by the 12th Amendment. In such a situation, the House chooses one of the top three presidential electoral vote-winners as the president, while the Senate chooses one of the top two vice presidential electoral vote-winners as vice president.

Section 3 of the 20th Amendment specifies that if the House of Representatives has not chosen a president-elect in time for the inauguration (noon on January 20), then the vice president-elect becomes acting president until the House selects a president. Section 3 also specifies that Congress may statutorily provide for who will be acting president if there is neither a president-elect nor a vice president-elect in time for the inauguration. Under the Presidential Succession Act of 1947, the Speaker of the House would become acting president until either the House selects a president or the Senate selects a vice president. None of these situations has ever occurred. The Constitution's silence on this point could have caused a constitutional crisis in the 1801 contingent election, as the House of Representatives seemed for a time to be unable to resolve the Jefferson–Burr Electoral College deadlock.

Edit for more clarification.

Edit 2: The 270 number is a moving target that changes every 10 years based on the Census.

 

[Nesikep]

"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism….In governments purely elective, [a spirit of party is] not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose; and there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume." George Washington warning against the two party system.

It's not so much how many parties there are, but how many ideologies there are.. Up here, we have the liberals, NDP and conservatives... the libs and NDP are both left and pander as much as they can, and form coalitions all the time.. they might as well just be considered as one

 

[sstterry]

It's not so much how many parties there are, but how many ideologies there are.. Up here, we have the liberals, NDP and conservatives... the libs and NDP are both left and pander as much as they can, and form coalitions all the time.. they might as well just be considered as one

And that is what happens in a Parliamentary system.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

I can appreciate the reasoning behind not voting a straight party ticket. It might work out in a school board or local contest but as was pointed
out to me ''' In most cases a candidate running for office is dependant on outside money (money other than his own) to finance a campaign.
This can entail a sense of, or expectation of obligation on the part of the recepient once they have obtained the office. If the party of one's choice is
pro choice as opposed to right to life, believes the Constitution a 'living document' and not as written, or any of the several issues that divides us as
a people your only logical choice is to vote the party in line with your belief structure. We are in a tenuous situation. I fear that if this should turn
around the party of ''president elect'' is not going to go peaceably in the good night. What each of does in this hour will weigh heavily on those
who follow, ''Better to break bread with a friend than to have your name carved in stone.''

On covid--Thank G-d for the vaccine! I pray it is successful. I will not debate your choice not to accept it and hope you will respect anothers
choice to get the shot. Lastly please remember, Beef, It's whats for dinner!

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Not responding from a partisan perspective but of mere observation. You state that it is improbable that the top of ballot could loose votes and be carried by another party, while down ballot races were won as predicted by the other party. That is not only possible it did happen in our KY state gubernatorial race last time around. The incumbent governor was popular among his base but had made a lot of controversial decisions and statements that alienated some voters who had supported him in his initial run for governor. He lost his re election, while if I remember correctly every other down ballot candidate from his party won their respective races.

I bet a lot of folks regret voting for "Lock Down" Andy now.

 

[cbcr]

Here is a link to the FDA that outline the monitoring and safety of the covid-19 vaccine.

Also in this link is a page that lists possible on page 16 of possible adverse effects of the vaccine.

https://www.fda.gov/media/143557/download

 

[Caustic Burno]

I bet a lot of folks regret voting for "Lock Down" Andy now.

A lot of folks better cheer for those two R's out of Georgia!!
The absolute worse nightmare for working Americans is undivided government no matter the party. When compromise goes it's dictatorship by committee.

 

[Chapin81]

To stay on topic found out last night my cousin has covid and is in the ICU in an L.A hospital. He's on a ventilator and probably won't make it. Please take care of your loved ones and god bless everyone.

 

[sstterry]

To stay on topic found out last night my cousin has covid and is in the ICU in an L.A hospital. He's on a ventilator and probably won't make it. Please take care of your loved ones and god bless everyone.

Prayers being sent your way. I lost another friend to it Sunday.

 

[simme]

"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism….In governments purely elective, [a spirit of party is] not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose; and there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume." George Washington warning against the two party system.

Mr. George had a way with words, didn't he. I think I need another translation. That one reads like the KJV. Best I can tell, looks like he was against political parties. If there were two parties at the time, what are the chances they would have ever agreed on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution? But, the parties started forming soon after.

 

[Buck Randall]

Agreed no one should hesitate to throw their hat in the ring on any discussion here.
But it can be frustrating discussing (arguing) with someone who is getting all their info from the Media.
Anyone in my little corner of America with half a nut knows how full of corn the news is.

Well, it's literally impossible to get your news from someone who isn't media, unless you've got a direct line to the White House. Media isn't just the big networks and papers anymore.

 

[Son of Butch]

To stay on topic found out last night my cousin has covid and is in the ICU in an L.A hospital. He's on a ventilator and probably won't make it. Please take care of your loved ones and god bless everyone.

How old is he? Risk factors?
On the plus side....
Incubated survival rates have increased from 58% in April to 77% in October.
So chin up, the odds are still in his favor.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I can appreciate the reasoning behind not voting a straight party ticket. It might work out in a school board or local contest but as was pointed
out to me ''' In most cases a candidate running for office is dependant on outside money (money other than his own) to finance a campaign.
This can entail a sense of, or expectation of obligation on the part of the recepient once they have obtained the office. If the party of one's choice is
pro choice as opposed to right to life, believes the Constitution a 'living document' and not as written, or any of the several issues that divides us as
a people your only logical choice is to vote the party in line with your belief structure. We are in a tenuous situation. I fear that if this should turn
around the party of ''president elect'' is not going to go peaceably in the good night. What each of does in this hour will weigh heavily on those
who follow, ''Better to break bread with a friend than to have your name carved in stone.''

On covid--Thank G-d for the vaccine! I pray it is successful. I will not debate your choice not to accept it and hope you will respect anothers
choice to get the shot. Lastly please remember, Beef, It's whats for dinner!

The Covid fear is what amazes me the most. I guess most can't realize a life with out modern medicine today.
Lost my oldest brother in 43 to a simple infection as a child. Penicillin wasn't available to the public until 45. Lots of these little country cemeteries around here are full of kids up through the 1940's.

 

[Buck Randall]

You'll get a 3rd party if you start voting for something other than the big two
Everyone seems to always vote against a party with the next best (or least bad) candidate, no 3rd party can ever get any attention that way... the media also loves to dismiss and ignore any options too (Ron Paul was a great example of that, they did EVERYTHING they could to no mention him)

I'm curious though, in the US electoral system, if there was a 3rd party that got enough electoral college votes so that neither of the other parties could get to 270, what would happen? theoretically it's possible the two parties would even be tied.

Ranked choice voting would be the only viable path for more parties to emerge at this point. If a more moderate party can be everyone's second choice, they'd win.

The two party system makes for some strange bedfellows, and I think people are more likely to become single issue voters because they can't get what they really want. If there were no political parties, how many people do you think would describe themselves as pro-life, pro-gun, and pro-corporate tax cuts? Individually I can understand why people would support those issues, but they have nothing to do with each other.

 

[Ky hills]

To stay on topic found out last night my cousin has covid and is in the ICU in an L.A hospital. He's on a ventilator and probably won't make it. Please take care of your loved ones and god bless everyone.

Will be praying for him and your family.

 

[callmefence]

Well, it's literally impossible to get your news from someone who isn't media, unless you've got a direct line to the White House. Media isn't just the big networks and papers anymore.

I don't need anyone to tell me the state of my environment.

 

[Buck Randall]

I don't need anyone to tell me the state of my environment.

The earth is flat. I looked out my window and saw it for myself.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Ranked choice voting would be the only viable path for more parties to emerge at this point. If a more moderate party can be everyone's second choice, they'd win.

The two party system makes for some strange bedfellows, and I think people are more likely to become single issue voters because they can't get what they really want. If there were no political parties, how many people do you think would describe themselves as pro-life, pro-gun, and pro-corporate tax cuts? Individually I can understand why people would support those issues, but they have nothing to do with each other.

First you have never seen a poor person employing people, thriving corporations do. Second corporations don't pay taxes they collect them from consumers. Increase Walmart taxes 10% tomorrow and everything is going up 10%.
That's why diesel is taxed higher than gasoline, every product you buy from a settin of eggs to a roll of toilet paper rides on diesel. It's the hidden income tax.
Pro life versus post birth abortion aka murder that's a pretty simple moral dilemma.
Pro gun is the most important right we have to protect ourselves from government.
Government is not your friend it's two wolves discussing what's for dinner with a well armed lamb.