couple killed by dogs.

[RD-Sam]

["Walt"]Thats very interesting Brandonm. I watched something on TV about this. The historian guessed that Dogs became domesticated by at first hanging out near tribes and eating their garbage. Bones and such that prehistoric man would throw in their dump wich was usually very close to home. As Man and dog became more accustom to each other it was inevitable that dogs became domesticated. Atleast thats what I remember him saying."

His speculation is just as valid as my speculation since neither of us were actually there; BUT I am sure that opossums, rats, mice, vultures, crows, flighless carnivorous birds, big cats, bears, etc also probably combed through prehistoric man's garbage and there is little record that any of these were widly accepted as pets by prehistoric man. The domestication of dogs occurred way way way out there in prehistory. Dingos boated to Australia thousands of years ago. The Indians crossed into North America ~25,000 years ago and dogs came with them so we know Asians had dogs tens of thousands of years ago. Dogs evolutionarily split off from the grey wolf ~100,000 years ago. Now were those first dogs......wild dogs that thousands of years later got domesticated by man? or was the first domesticated animal actually the wolf and the evolution of the dog was NOT an evolutionary accident; but rather was mostly selective breeding of wolves by man??? The dog (wolf?) is probably the first domesticated animal so the person who first domesticated them probably invented the whole concept of keeping and training pets. Our thinking of how this happened is colored by our knowledge of dogs and other pets. I think it is a little out there too suggest that somebody who had never heard of any kind of pet would suddenly try to make "friends" with an adult predator he fought for food with every day. Taking a litter of pups in as perhaps a future meal and then forming that whole pack bond is a whole different scenario.

All canines are descendants of the Asian wolf, DNA verified. The Chow is thought to be the oldest since it's DNA most resembles the DNA of the wolf, it was extremely high, I think around 98%.

 

[Txwalt]

["Walt"]Thats very interesting Brandonm. I watched something on TV about this. The historian guessed that Dogs became domesticated by at first hanging out near tribes and eating their garbage. Bones and such that prehistoric man would throw in their dump wich was usually very close to home. As Man and dog became more accustom to each other it was inevitable that dogs became domesticated. Atleast thats what I remember him saying."

His speculation is just as valid as my speculation since neither of us were actually there; BUT I am sure that opossums, rats, mice, vultures, crows, flighless carnivorous birds, big cats, bears, etc also probably combed through prehistoric man's garbage and there is little record that any of these were widly accepted as pets by prehistoric man. The domestication of dogs occurred way way way out there in prehistory. Dingos boated to Australia thousands of years ago. The Indians crossed into North America ~25,000 years ago and dogs came with them so we know Asians had dogs tens of thousands of years ago. Dogs evolutionarily split off from the grey wolf ~100,000 years ago. Now were those first dogs......wild dogs that thousands of years later got domesticated by man? or was the first domesticated animal actually the wolf and the evolution of the dog was NOT an evolutionary accident; but rather was mostly selective breeding of wolves by man??? The dog (wolf?) is probably the first domesticated animal so the person who first domesticated them probably invented the whole concept of keeping and training pets. Our thinking of how this happened is colored by our knowledge of dogs and other pets. I think it is a little out there too suggest that somebody who had never heard of any kind of pet would suddenly try to make "friends" with an adult predator he fought for food with every day. Taking a litter of pups in as perhaps a future meal and then forming that whole pack bond is a whole different scenario.

All canines are descendants of the Asian wolf, DNA verified. The Chow is thought to be the oldest since it's DNA most resembles the DNA of the wolf, it was extremely high, I think around 98%.

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permane ... st/dna.php

"Humans and chimps share a surprising 98.8 percent of their DNA."

98% Is really not close at all.

Walt

 

[Ryder]

Agree with Walt. How the numbers look in the theoretical world is one thing. What they actually mean in the real world is another.

 

[RD-Sam]

I can completely change the look of a dog and the type in three generations, that means nothing.

 

[Txwalt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_domestic_dog

Orphaned wolf-cubs: Studies have shown that some wolf pups taken at an early age and reared by humans are easily tamed and socialized.[2] At least one study has demonstrated that adult wolves can be successfully socialized.[3] Many scientists believe that humans adopted orphaned wolf cubs and nursed them alongside human babies.[4][5] Once these early adoptees started breeding among themselves, a new generation of tame "wolf-like" domestic animals would result which would, over generations of time, become more dog-like.[6]
The Promise of Food/Self Domestication: Early wolves would, as scavengers, be attracted to the bones and refuse dumps of human campsites. Dr. Raymond Coppinger of Hampshire College (Massachusetts) argues[7] that those wolves that were more successful at interacting with humans would pass these traits onto their offspring, eventually creating wolves with a greater propensity to be domesticated. The "most social and least fearful" dogs were the ones who were kept around the human living areas, helping to breed those traits that are still recognized in dogs today.[5] Coppinger believes that a behavioral characteristic called "flight distance" was crucial to the transformation from wild wolf to the ancestors of the modern dog. It represents how close an animal will allow humans (or anything else it perceives as dangerous) to get before it runs away. Animals with shorter flight distances will linger, and feed, when humans are close by; this behavioral trait would have been passed on to successive generations, and amplified, creating animals that are increasingly more comfortable around humans. "My argument is that what domesticated—or tame—means is to be able to eat in the presence of human beings. That is the thing that wild wolves can't do."[8] Furthermore, selection for domesticity had the side effect of selecting genetically related physical characteristics, and behavior such as barking. Hypothetically, wolves separated into two populations – the village-oriented scavengers and the packs of hunters. The next steps have not been defined, but selective pressure must have been present to sustain the divergence of these populations.

 

[peg4x4]

I had a Pyreneese mix who could not eat with anyone around. If I so much as looked out the window she would leave her food. After years of work,just before she died(age 11) she started eating while I was in the yard. Her sire was a very shy German Shepherd,one of the next litter was the same way..We also got another pup,same mom,Labbish dad--very loveing sweet dog.
Marlo's jaw would lock up around humans,she couldn't swallow,would sit and shake so bad her hair would come out..However,she was very domante with other dogs,as long as there was no human around.If I had her around people,I'd make her run thro her limited range of commands-sit/down/come/heel so she couldn't dwell on how scared she was-It worked somewhat..Of course she was spayed,I wouldn't want to be responsable for more dogs like her-I'm sure in her mind she was a captive wolf. she would lie under the fig tree where noone could see her.. She was the mose beautiful dog,cream with a blue muzzle and legs,a lions ruff around the neck
Just broke my heart for her mind to be that way---I know she was never mistreated before or after I got her.

 

[Brandonm22]

I had a Pyreneese mix who could not eat with anyone around. If I so much as looked out the window she would leave her food. After years of work,just before she died(age 11) she started eating while I was in the yard.
Just broke my heart for her mind to be that way---I know she was never mistreated before or after I got her.

I have two sibs in a pen that don't like people AT ALL. I have had them all their lives. They hated to be handled as pups. The little guys would scream and scream if you held them. I broke them from biting and snapping but they grew increasingly difficult too catch. They will follow me around but getting my hands on either one of them is impossible and the female will bark and growl AT ME if I face her. Both will come for food; but not within six foot. At one point they got loose and were ranging over about 200 acres. I finally got them back in a pen. If I were more motivated I would try chaining the both of them up to try to break them. I did that successfully with their sire, though he was always friendlier though is bigger and much more vicious...too vicious to be unable to control (he has literally ripped apart other dogs with little effort). They are naturally unsellable and with their attitudes I couldn't give them to some kid. If I get cows again, they aren't usable because I can't get my hands on them to put them in the traveling box much less get them back in their box and the only command they respond to is "come here" (in their case limited too six foot from my presence). Interestingly, they have a smaller littermate (whom they REALLY HATE) who is like a cartoon dog, he adores people, loves puppies and other dogs, is extremely trainable, was such a frequent visitor to the house from the moment that he could walk that he eventually moved in, and is infectiously happy. He sits in people's lap, likes hugs, and sleeps on the end of the bed. He instinctually grasped all the blue heeler cattle stuff (though I can't use him anymore, because Mother likes him too much to let me take him out of the house). Dog genetics are really wierd, it is hard to routinely get predictable performance from just about any line (I certainly have sc**wed this one up!!). Just because a dog is distant doesn't necessarily mean he has been abused. Just because a dog is nice doesn't mean he hasn't .

 

[peg4x4]

You have captive wolves,they are just wearing dog suits---Hopefully these 2 are nutered-More like them would not be good.
I had a litter of kittens,born in the house,handled every day,were as wild as a Bobcat! The were half Persain(sp)
As I said,those 2 dogs you have would either excaped back into the wild,or been soup back then.
Arn't heelers part Dingo? Could be a throwback to that.

 

[ANAZAZI]

I had a Pyreneese mix who could not eat with anyone around. If I so much as looked out the window she would leave her food. After years of work,just before she died(age 11) she started eating while I was in the yard.
Just broke my heart for her mind to be that way---I know she was never mistreated before or after I got her.

I have two sibs in a pen that don't like people AT ALL. I have had them all their lives. They hated to be handled as pups. The little guys would scream and scream if you held them. I broke them from biting and snapping but they grew increasingly difficult too catch. They will follow me around but getting my hands on either one of them is impossible and the female will bark and growl AT ME if I face her. Both will come for food; but not within six foot. At one point they got loose and were ranging over about 200 acres. I finally got them back in a pen. If I were more motivated I would try chaining the both of them up to try to break them. I did that successfully with their sire, though he was always friendlier though is bigger and much more vicious...too vicious to be unable to control (he has literally ripped apart other dogs with little effort). They are naturally unsellable and with their attitudes I couldn't give them to some kid. If I get cows again, they aren't usable because I can't get my hands on them to put them in the traveling box much less get them back in their box and the only command they respond to is "come here" (in their case limited too six foot from my presence). Interestingly, they have a smaller littermate (whom they REALLY HATE) who is like a cartoon dog, he adores people, loves puppies and other dogs, is extremely trainable, was such a frequent visitor to the house from the moment that he could walk that he eventually moved in, and is infectiously happy. He sits in people's lap, likes hugs, and sleeps on the end of the bed. He instinctually grasped all the blue heeler cattle stuff (though I can't use him anymore, because Mother likes him too much to let me take him out of the house). Dog genetics are really wierd, it is hard to routinely get predictable performance from just about any line (I certainly have sc**wed this one up!!). Just because a dog is distant doesn't necessarily mean he has been abused. Just because a dog is nice doesn't mean he hasn't .

sound like culls to me.

 

[peg4x4]

On Animal Planet they always have abused dogs/cats.. The odd thing is with just a bit of work,or none at all,these dogs/cats are very willing to give people another chance. Odd,that..I'd never risk another person anywhere near me,and these "dumb animals" forgive.
Animals are quite a bit like us,there are insane among them also.