Could cows be our environmental superheroes?

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Kingfisher

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How a return to grazing may just help save the world. This is the title to an ad in today's paper here written by Heather Pratt, MNT that's part of a Natural Grocer ad. I tried to find the whole article online but couldn't. I just wonder are these statements true?
97% of the beef in this country is raised in feedlots.
60% of the corn grown in the US is used for livestock feed.
It takes 100 gallons of oil to grow enough corn to raise a cow.
Corn farming has converted large swaths of fertile grasslands into virtual deserts that lie barren outside of the growing season.
True or false? Thanks in advance.

One more is natural gas a fossil fuel?
 
How much oil does it take to raise a kid? now THAT would be a staggering number.

60% of corn used for livestock production, I can actually believe that, mostly as silage for the dairies. I'm sure that in BC the number is much higher than that... people don't eat that much corn here.
97% of beef raised in feedlots? well, I'm a little more skeptical about that one, perhaps with a little change in wording such as 97% of 'store bought' beef, I think I'd believe it... I just think there's enough people in the organic/grassfed business that don't perhaps don't get included.
100 gallons of oil to raise a cow? BS, it doesn't take any corn to raise a cow, and certainly not a beef cow, it may take corn to finish a steer though. I'm not sure about the 100 gallons though, I know corn gets lots of ammonia fertilizer, and I guess the energy taken to produce that could be converted into an "oil" number, but I still can't see that number.. not even close. I want to see the math behind it.

the last statement? well, that's corn farming, and is PROBABLY the area where they grow the human food corn. Many types of farming leave the land barren outside of the growing season, Most grains for that matter.

I would like to see who's behind that one too
 
Kingfisher":2j3mu7am said:
How a return to grazing may just help save the world. This is the title to an ad in today's paper here written by Heather Pratt, MNT that's part of a Natural Grocer ad. I tried to find the whole article online but couldn't. I just wonder are these statements true?
97% of the beef in this country is raised in feedlots. Finished in a feedlot
60% of the corn grown in the US is used for livestock feed.True
It takes 100 gallons of oil to grow enough corn to raise a cow.NO idea
Corn farming has converted large swaths of fertile grasslands into virtual deserts that lie barren outside of the growing season.A bit distorted..."desert"???
True or false? Thanks in advance.

One more is natural gas a fossil fuel?Dam right Pelosi!!!!
 
I hate to tell you this tidbit but ethanol is carbon based fuel just like oil or natural gas.

The empirical formula of ethanol C2H6O natural gas pure would be CH4.
There is always a percentage C2H6 Ethane.
 
FYI,
Re:
One more is natural gas a fossil fuel?

It has been scientific proven natural gas and oil is NOT a fossil fuel.

Following Thomas Gold's theory on the abiogenic formation of fossil fuels the major gas/ oil exploration conglomerates have found oil and gas deep within the earth in sold rock in locations where no fossil were found.

For a starter see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Gold
Origins of Petroium
 
NC Liz 2":2tr2gdfe said:
FYI,
Re:
One more is natural gas a fossil fuel?

It has been scientific proven natural gas and oil is NOT a fossil fuel.

Following Thomas Gold's theory on the abiogenic formation of fossil fuels the major gas/ oil exploration conglomerates have found oil and gas deep within the earth in sold rock in locations where no fossil were found.

For a starter see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Gold
Origins of Petroium

That is not a true statement as this argument and conflicting science has been going on for decades.
Gold is a Russian scientist that came up with the theory he is very much in the minority on this.
The only one for eons

A little element called vanadium has caused him great difficulty in this. Mother earth manufacturing hydrocarbons
has a few other issues in the manufacturing as well. There are hundreds of different types of crude ranging from the consistency of peanut butter in Ca. to water white no two regions are the same.
http://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/70015695.

You can go with the first what ever blows up your dress here. With my background organic chemistry I am not sure anyone really knows where it came from in such quantities. To make synthetic oil/fuel you need carbon based life Algae, corn etc.
After decades in the industry teaching Cyclic Catalytic Reforming, Distillate Desulfurization, Hydrogen Reformation and Isomerization processes I tend to go with the latter.
Vanadium is referred to in the industry as dinosaur blood.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/A- ... e-Oil.html
 
Caustic Burno":11ysi33n said:
After decades in the industry teaching Cyclic Catalytic Reforming, Distillate Desulfurization, Hydrogen Reformation and Isomerization processes I tend to go with the latter.
Vanadium is referred to in the industry as dinosaur blood.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/A- ... e-Oil.html

When the nurse draws your Vanadium, do they have to send it out to an outside lab or can they run it in your local clinic? :hide:
 
I read a claim that it takes 100 barrels of oil to get a calf finished once. Since I'm too retentive to just do the quick math to know that this is completely bogus (A 100 barrels of oil at current West Texas Intermediate pricing being $100.84 per barrel creates a calf with a finishing costs of 100 x 100.84 = $10,084.00 I don't know anyone paying that kind of change for one, not to mention other costs), I worked out the very long math at the time on what I believe would be an average finished calf to figure a close estimate.

The final figures are mine, so that makes me the liar, with references to where I obtained the original values. Feel free to waste the next 10 minutes reading it and suggesting changes that should be made.

(Fine Print for TB) The following is understood to not be a complete and well rounded diet, but a close representation of the necessary energy needed to produce the caloric intake in the lotted time frame needed to produce a feedlot finished calf. It was an assumption that the corn would be a major component and one of the most petroleum energy expensive components of the diet. It therefore was utilized to encompass the total petroleum energy requirements for the production of a feedlot diet. :mrgreen:

Feed: Corn

Manufacturing 1 ton of anhydrous ammonia fertilizer requires 33,500 cubic feet of natural gas. ~ 16.75 cubic feet of gas per lb of anhydrous ammonia.

Average for years 2000-2006 was 150 bushels per acre of corn with an average N application rate of 148 pounds of N per acre.

Therefor 148 lbs of N = 150 bushels/acre. Which is approximately 171 lbs of anhydrous ammonia, which equals 19 cubic feet of natural gas consumed per bushel to fertilize 148 lbs of N per acre or 2864 cubic feet per acre (19 cf x150 bushels). Then to account for DAP fertilizer. Even doubling this which I would expect to be over kill, you have 38 cubic feet of gas per bushel.

Average 0.3 to 1.5 gallons of diesel per acre per pass for tillage and planting depending on implement. How many passes ~ 7 for prepping ground, planting, application of fertilizer/weed killer, cutting? Average is probably ~ 1 gal/acre with 7 passes- 7 gallons acre with per 150 bushels or 0.046 gallons per bushel. (http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/farmmgt/05006.html) (http://www3.abe.iastate.edu/livestock/pm587.asp)

Hauling material is fairly limited to elevators and then on to feed yards per bushel due to them being close. Add even another 0.014 for processing hauling local. 0.06 gallons of diesel per bushel of corn for processing and planting.

Drying corn is ~ 1 gallon propane per 6 bushels.



Cattle:

Cow/Calf
Pasture for mama cows- let say average N application for grass is 100 lbs/acre and you run a cow calf pair per 2 acres. 200 lbs of N ~ 244 lbs of anhydrous ammonia = 4,087 cubic feet of natural gas fertilizer for cow calf unit. (so there is some positive left in the cow as well)
Hauling cattle average 8 miles/gallon with even pulling them out of Florida to Oklahoma for stockers- ~1,000 miles or 125 gallons per 100 head of 500 wts = 1.25 gallons shipping per calf

Application of fertilizer ~ 0.5 gallon per acre = 1 per head and general fuel usage ~ 5 gallon per head

Stocker
http://www.noble.org/ag/soils/winterpastures/ something worth noting is that "Research data show that if you do not fertilize winter pastures, you will produce about 2,000 pounds per acre of dry matter forage in a season. With good grazing management, cattle can consume all the forage except about 500 pounds per acre. Simple subtraction, cattle will consume about 1,500 pounds of dry matter forage per acre from unfertilized winter pastures (2,000-500)."

However, using N average 100 lbs of N per acre of wheat again looking at 2044 cubic feet of natural gas per acre for gain of ~ 435 lbs but we'll just say 400. So 2044 cu ft per calf.

Fuel use is probably 5 passes so 5 gallons per acre or 5 gallons per calf. http://www3.abe.iastate.edu/livestock/pm587.asp

Oklahoma city to Kanasas~250 miles to feed lot at 900 lbs =55 calves per pot load and 31 gallons per potload = 0.56 gallons of diesel per calf

General fuel usage ~ 2.5 gallons per head

Feedlot
Trucking corn to Feedlot, consider even 200 miles at 8 mile/gallon with 50,000 lb payload 25 gallons 893 bushels = 0.03 gallons of diesel per bushel fed for trucking.
 
Taking an all corn diet just to make it easier to calculate and assuming this would be the worst case scenario of using fossil fuels and resources, average calculation is 6lbs of feed per lb of gain. So for 900 lb calf to 1250 lb calf =350 lbs of weight gain therefor 350 x 6= 2,100 lbs of corn. So 56 lb to the bushel and you have 37.5 bushels per calf = 1425 cubic feet of natural gas and 2.25 gallons of diesel, plus shipping 1.12 gallons = 3.37 gallons of diesel used per calf per volume of corn consumed

Feed truck, loader, etc... ~ 0.75 gal per animal
Spreading manure 0.5 gal per animal
(http://www3.abe.iastate.edu/livestock/pm587.asp)

Propane use is 6.25 gallons per calf

Feed lot to kill plant ~ 60 miles 1250 lb calves 40 head ~ 0.19 gallons per head


Roughly, from mama to packer, each calf uses: 4,087 + 2044 + 1425 = 7,556 cu feet of natural gas (over its life), US produced 82 billion cubic feet per day. So in 1 day, we produce enough gas for 10 million, 852 thousand animals from start to finish.

Roughly, from mama to packer, each calf uses: 1 + 5 + 2.5 + 1.25 + 5 + 0.56 + 3.37 + 0.75 + 0.5 + 0.19 gallons of diesel = 20.12 gallons of diesel per calf

Average to worst case scenerio 7,556 cu feet of natural gas, 20.12 gallons of diesel and 6.25 gallons of propane per calf to the packer (without considering water usage).


Now, consider that I have documented estimated figures for usage of fertilizers and fuel use in intensive management. However, using the roughly estimated figures for general fuel use on the farm, the most usage of diesel or gas appears to me to be the day to day care of the animal (traveling to and from the pasture and looking through the spread out herd). If your going to fertilize grass, you are still going to consume fossil fuels and it appears possibly even more than by feeding cattle in an efficient concentrated system. Also, your still going to have some shipping of each animal to the slaughter plant and to the stores. If your running stockers, your going to have to ship them in and then on to kill plants as well.

If I had more time, I would analyze this further into looking at running those same cattle on grass for the amount of time it would take to gain the same wt for slaughter in a lot and see how much of a difference there really is in overall fuel usage. I don't think there is much and possibly even less.

With natural gas being used to produce N fertilizer, and this recently has been until this winter a relatively cheap product- with much wasted over the past few years. I don't see concentrated feeding as a waste but possibly a fuel saver along with making better use of one of the most scarce resources we have, land.

Addendum to account for energy of water usage:
Quote

While use varies depending on annual precipitation, average yearly energy
consumption in Nebraska is equivalent to about 40 gallons of diesel fuel per acre
irrigated.

http://www.ksre.ksu.edu/irrigate/OOW/P11/Kranz11a.pdf

1/4 acre of average 150 bushel corn would be an additional 10 gallons per animal for finishing for irrigation and then estimating for close to 4,000 gallons of water consumption over the life of the animal, roughly looking at an additional 0.2 to 0.4 gallons of diesel during it's life to pump at 50 to 150 feet depth well at variable pressures.

Looks like collection of liquid manure, storage and hauling adds ~ another 4 to 7 gallons per animal. However, there should be some benefit applied back toward this particular animals food consumption since this waste will be utilized as fertilizer for feed.

So ~ another 16.5 gallons of diesel usage.

Average to worst case scenerio 7,556 cu feet of natural gas, 36.62 gallons of diesel and 6.25 gallons of propane per calf to the packer.

U.S. refineries produce an average of about 10 gallons of diesel fuel from one barrel (42 gallons) of crude oil. The remainder of the barrel yields other petroleum products.
http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=327&t=9

Therefore, it appears to me that it will take roughly 3.6 barrels of oil (minus usable petroleum products not converted into diesel), 7,556 cu feet of natural gas and 6.25 gallons of propane per finished calf to the packer.
 
Commercialfarmer":16ijmhgd said:
Therefore, it appears to me that it will take roughly 3.6 barrels of oil (minus usable petroleum products not converted into diesel), 7,556 cu feet of natural gas and 6.25 gallons of propane per finished calf to the packer.
I concur...however, I with your permission I will forward your finding to the apathy committee for review. :mrgreen:
 
Commercialfarmer":2wqttj0z said:
I read a claim that it takes 100 barrels of oil to get a calf finished once. Since I'm too retentive to just do the quick math to know that this is completely bogus (A 100 barrels of oil at current West Texas Intermediate pricing being $100.84 per barrel creates a calf with a finishing costs of 100 x 100.84 = $10,084.00 I don't know anyone paying that kind of change for one, not to mention other costs), I worked out the very long math at the time on what I believe would be an average finished calf to figure a close estimate.

The final figures are mine, so that makes me the liar, with references to where I obtained the original values. Feel free to waste the next 10 minutes reading it and suggesting changes that should be made.

(Fine Print for TB) The following is understood to not be a complete and well rounded diet, but a close representation of the necessary energy needed to produce the caloric intake in the lotted time frame needed to produce a feedlot finished calf. It was an assumption that the corn would be a major component and one of the most petroleum energy expensive components of the diet. It therefore was utilized to encompass the total petroleum energy requirements for the production of a feedlot diet. :mrgreen:

Feed: Corn

Manufacturing 1 ton of anhydrous ammonia fertilizer requires 33,500 cubic feet of natural gas. ~ 16.75 cubic feet of gas per lb of anhydrous ammonia.

Average for years 2000-2006 was 150 bushels per acre of corn with an average N application rate of 148 pounds of N per acre.

Therefor 148 lbs of N = 150 bushels/acre. Which is approximately 171 lbs of anhydrous ammonia, which equals 19 cubic feet of natural gas consumed per bushel to fertilize 148 lbs of N per acre or 2864 cubic feet per acre (19 cf x150 bushels). Then to account for DAP fertilizer. Even doubling this which I would expect to be over kill, you have 38 cubic feet of gas per bushel.

Average 0.3 to 1.5 gallons of diesel per acre per pass for tillage and planting depending on implement. How many passes ~ 7 for prepping ground, planting, application of fertilizer/weed killer, cutting? Average is probably ~ 1 gal/acre with 7 passes- 7 gallons acre with per 150 bushels or 0.046 gallons per bushel. (http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/farmmgt/05006.html) (http://www3.abe.iastate.edu/livestock/pm587.asp)

Hauling material is fairly limited to elevators and then on to feed yards per bushel due to them being close. Add even another 0.014 for processing hauling local. 0.06 gallons of diesel per bushel of corn for processing and planting.

Drying corn is ~ 1 gallon propane per 6 bushels.



Cattle:

Cow/Calf
Pasture for mama cows- let say average N application for grass is 100 lbs/acre and you run a cow calf pair per 2 acres. 200 lbs of N ~ 244 lbs of anhydrous ammonia = 4,087 cubic feet of natural gas fertilizer for cow calf unit. (so there is some positive left in the cow as well)
Hauling cattle average 8 miles/gallon with even pulling them out of Florida to Oklahoma for stockers- ~1,000 miles or 125 gallons per 100 head of 500 wts = 1.25 gallons shipping per calf

Application of fertilizer ~ 0.5 gallon per acre = 1 per head and general fuel usage ~ 5 gallon per head

Stocker
http://www.noble.org/ag/soils/winterpastures/ something worth noting is that "Research data show that if you do not fertilize winter pastures, you will produce about 2,000 pounds per acre of dry matter forage in a season. With good grazing management, cattle can consume all the forage except about 500 pounds per acre. Simple subtraction, cattle will consume about 1,500 pounds of dry matter forage per acre from unfertilized winter pastures (2,000-500)."

However, using N average 100 lbs of N per acre of wheat again looking at 2044 cubic feet of natural gas per acre for gain of ~ 435 lbs but we'll just say 400. So 2044 cu ft per calf.

Fuel use is probably 5 passes so 5 gallons per acre or 5 gallons per calf. http://www3.abe.iastate.edu/livestock/pm587.asp

Oklahoma city to Kanasas~250 miles to feed lot at 900 lbs =55 calves per pot load and 31 gallons per potload = 0.56 gallons of diesel per calf

General fuel usage ~ 2.5 gallons per head

Feedlot
Trucking corn to Feedlot, consider even 200 miles at 8 mile/gallon with 50,000 lb payload 25 gallons 893 bushels = 0.03 gallons of diesel per bushel fed for trucking.

That is not counting the ton's of CO and CO2 made in the process of natural gas, steam and air under high pressure ran over a catalyst. The N H are broken off the water and air molecule and the carbon from the natural gas is bonded to the O molecules.
That is a major reason NH3 is so high as most US plant's were put out of business by EPA CO2 emission regs.
 
Commercialfarmer":1w0io5m8 said:
Caustic Burno":1w0io5m8 said:
After decades in the industry teaching Cyclic Catalytic Reforming, Distillate Desulfurization, Hydrogen Reformation and Isomerization processes I tend to go with the latter.
Vanadium is referred to in the industry as dinosaur blood.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/A- ... e-Oil.html

When the nurse draws your Vanadium, do they have to send it out to an outside lab or can they run it in your local clinic? :hide:




I will remember that next time you and Isom come riding through on your Shetlands.
 
Caustic Burno":1tafndrz said:
Commercialfarmer":1tafndrz said:
Caustic Burno":1tafndrz said:
After decades in the industry teaching Cyclic Catalytic Reforming, Distillate Desulfurization, Hydrogen Reformation and Isomerization processes I tend to go with the latter.
Vanadium is referred to in the industry as dinosaur blood.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/A- ... e-Oil.html

When the nurse draws your Vanadium, do they have to send it out to an outside lab or can they run it in your local clinic? :hide:




I will remember that next time you and Isom come riding through on your Shetlands.

:lol:
 
TexasBred":2x14e7r0 said:
Commercialfarmer":2x14e7r0 said:
Therefore, it appears to me that it will take roughly 3.6 barrels of oil (minus usable petroleum products not converted into diesel), 7,556 cu feet of natural gas and 6.25 gallons of propane per finished calf to the packer.
I concur...however, I with your permission I will forward your finding to the apathy committee for review. :mrgreen:

That sounds like a swell idea. If you don't mind, let them know my regrets that I might not have much availability for speaking engagements due to the amount of time I need to devote to CT and feral hog extermination responsibilities. However, I do have my price that I can be bought. If you give me a few minutes, I will see if I can calculate it. :D
 
Commercialfarmer":2cfio9bb said:
TexasBred":2cfio9bb said:
Commercialfarmer":2cfio9bb said:
Therefore, it appears to me that it will take roughly 3.6 barrels of oil (minus usable petroleum products not converted into diesel), 7,556 cu feet of natural gas and 6.25 gallons of propane per finished calf to the packer.
I concur...however, I with your permission I will forward your finding to the apathy committee for review. :mrgreen:

That sounds like a swell idea. If you don't mind, let them know my regrets that I might not have much availability for speaking engagements due to the amount of time I need to devote to CT and feral hog extermination responsibilities. However, I do have my price that I can be bought. If you give me a few minutes, I will see if I can calculate it. :D
:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: Get that Big Chief tablet out and lick the tip of that #2 pencil.
 
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