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corn vs oats

angus9259

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I have 3-4 mo old calves on their mommas in a northern climate. Been creep feeding whole oats - going well. Price of oats is up so the feed guy recommends I cut the oats with shelled corn by 50% - save me $28 per ton. Not sure it's worth turning their gut over for $28 per ton but what do you all think? I really don't want to be getting the calves fat either - just something to help get them through the winter.
 

dun

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I would stick with oats vs corn for the fat reason
 

farmerjan

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The woman that does the feed rations at our feed mill is a big believer of oats in the calf rations and one of the dairy farmers that raises alot of show/sale quality holstein heifers also feeds a lot of oats. I would think that cutting the feed by 25% corn would help a little but I wouldn't use whole shell corn. I would go to a rolled corn or a cracked corn. Whole corn does not digest nearly as well and you will see alot of corn in the manure. Dairy farmers for years have done kernel processing before the corn silage goes in the silo in order to make it easier to digest, and so they get more out of it. We don't feed any whole corn to the cows; mostly all cracked in any of the rations.
 

angus9259

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farmerjan":3cvgbifl said:
Whole corn does not digest nearly as well and you will see alot of corn in the manure.

Seems like everything passes through them - I see the oats too unless they are on it full time like they are now. If I bucket feed oats to the older cattle, I see it all over in their poop. Never been quite sure of the value of that but it must still be doing something. Even feeding whole shell corn passes through, but it still must work. It's a weird thing.
 

dun

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farmerjan":1lmhr509 said:
The woman that does the feed rations at our feed mill is a big believer of oats in the calf rations and one of the dairy farmers that raises alot of show/sale quality holstein heifers also feeds a lot of oats. I would think that cutting the feed by 25% corn would help a little but I wouldn't use whole shell corn. I would go to a rolled corn or a cracked corn. Whole corn does not digest nearly as well and you will see alot of corn in the manure. Dairy farmers for years have done kernel processing before the corn silage goes in the silo in order to make it easier to digest, and so they get more out of it. We don't feed any whole corn to the cows; mostly all cracked in any of the rations.
The difference in digesability between whole corn and cracked corn is less then 15% The reason you see more whole corn is because the pieces are larger. If you washed away the manure and just seperated out the corn pieces you wouldn;t see much difference in total volume of corn left.
 

HDRider

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dun":1hc8b2lg said:
farmerjan":1hc8b2lg said:
The woman that does the feed rations at our feed mill is a big believer of oats in the calf rations and one of the dairy farmers that raises alot of show/sale quality holstein heifers also feeds a lot of oats. I would think that cutting the feed by 25% corn would help a little but I wouldn't use whole shell corn. I would go to a rolled corn or a cracked corn. Whole corn does not digest nearly as well and you will see alot of corn in the manure. Dairy farmers for years have done kernel processing before the corn silage goes in the silo in order to make it easier to digest, and so they get more out of it. We don't feed any whole corn to the cows; mostly all cracked in any of the rations.
The difference in digesability between whole corn and cracked corn is less then 15% The reason you see more whole corn is because the pieces are larger. If you washed away the manure and just seperated out the corn pieces you wouldn;t see much difference in total volume of corn left.
I was pondering that very thing.. You just earned your oats there Mr. Dun. :cowboy:
 

angus9259

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Not to derail my own thread, but I've always wondered how this stuff (grains) that are clearly very much not digested provide such nutritional horsepower.
 

farmerjan

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dun":1zqrtyv2 said:
farmerjan":1zqrtyv2 said:
The woman that does the feed rations at our feed mill is a big believer of oats in the calf rations and one of the dairy farmers that raises alot of show/sale quality holstein heifers also feeds a lot of oats. I would think that cutting the feed by 25% corn would help a little but I wouldn't use whole shell corn. I would go to a rolled corn or a cracked corn. Whole corn does not digest nearly as well and you will see alot of corn in the manure. Dairy farmers for years have done kernel processing before the corn silage goes in the silo in order to make it easier to digest, and so they get more out of it. We don't feed any whole corn to the cows; mostly all cracked in any of the rations.
The difference in digesability between whole corn and cracked corn is less then 15% The reason you see more whole corn is because the pieces are larger. If you washed away the manure and just seperated out the corn pieces you wouldn;t see much difference in total volume of corn left.

I have been to alot of dairy meetings where there is alot of talk about TDN and all. I am no expert, but I know that there isn't a dairy farmer around that will feed whole corn in a ration anymore. I cannot say that it is only a 15% increase but to hear them talk I would think that it is alot more.
I also feed Crimped oats, not whole oats in the rations. Breaking up the outer hull and fiber will make it more assimulated by animals gut tract. I am not a nutritionist but will ask at the feed mill this week when I go in. Susan has the schooling, learning, and experience to give me some answers that I am now quite curious about.
 

HDRider

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farmerjan":3js5jap4 said:
dun":3js5jap4 said:
farmerjan":3js5jap4 said:
The woman that does the feed rations at our feed mill is a big believer of oats in the calf rations and one of the dairy farmers that raises alot of show/sale quality holstein heifers also feeds a lot of oats. I would think that cutting the feed by 25% corn would help a little but I wouldn't use whole shell corn. I would go to a rolled corn or a cracked corn. Whole corn does not digest nearly as well and you will see alot of corn in the manure. Dairy farmers for years have done kernel processing before the corn silage goes in the silo in order to make it easier to digest, and so they get more out of it. We don't feed any whole corn to the cows; mostly all cracked in any of the rations.
The difference in digesability between whole corn and cracked corn is less then 15% The reason you see more whole corn is because the pieces are larger. If you washed away the manure and just seperated out the corn pieces you wouldn;t see much difference in total volume of corn left.

I have been to alot of dairy meetings where there is alot of talk about TDN and all. I am no expert, but I know that there isn't a dairy farmer around that will feed whole corn in a ration anymore. I cannot say that it is only a 15% increase but to hear them talk I would think that it is alot more.
I also feed Crimped oats, not whole oats in the rations. Breaking up the outer hull and fiber will make it more assimulated by animals gut tract. I am not a nutritionist but will ask at the feed mill this week when I go in. Susan has the schooling, learning, and experience to give me some answers that I am now quite curious about.

According to the Googlator

Corn processing has been reported to increase starch digestibility (Galyean et al., 1979; Turgeon et al., 1983) and feedlot performance (Cole et al., 1976; Zinn et al., 2002) although results have not been consistent for all processing methods. In
extensive reviews of published trials, dry corn processing did not improve starch digestibility (Owens et al., 1986) or feedlot performance over whole shelled corn (Owens et al., 1997).


http://beefextension.com/proceedings/ca ... /06-10.pdf

It goes on to conclude...

Feeding whole corn eliminates processing costs. Improvements in performance from rolling or cracking corn grain often are not sufficient to offset a 5 to 10% processing cost. Whole corn may actually be advantageous, particularly for long-fed calves. Whole corn also should be considered for specific applications such as in starter rations, limit-feeding
situations, when forage is less than 5% of the diet, and when "Natural" feeding programs prohibit use of ionophores and feed grade antibiotics.
 

TexasBred

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farmerjan":29odm4zw said:
dun":29odm4zw said:
farmerjan":29odm4zw said:
The woman that does the feed rations at our feed mill is a big believer of oats in the calf rations and one of the dairy farmers that raises alot of show/sale quality holstein heifers also feeds a lot of oats. I would think that cutting the feed by 25% corn would help a little but I wouldn't use whole shell corn. I would go to a rolled corn or a cracked corn. Whole corn does not digest nearly as well and you will see alot of corn in the manure. Dairy farmers for years have done kernel processing before the corn silage goes in the silo in order to make it easier to digest, and so they get more out of it. We don't feed any whole corn to the cows; mostly all cracked in any of the rations.
The difference in digesability between whole corn and cracked corn is less then 15% The reason you see more whole corn is because the pieces are larger. If you washed away the manure and just seperated out the corn pieces you wouldn;t see much difference in total volume of corn left.

I have been to alot of dairy meetings where there is alot of talk about TDN and all. I am no expert, but I know that there isn't a dairy farmer around that will feed whole corn in a ration anymore. I cannot say that it is only a 15% increase but to hear them talk I would think that it is alot more.
I also feed Crimped oats, not whole oats in the rations. Breaking up the outer hull and fiber will make it more assimulated by animals gut tract. I am not a nutritionist but will ask at the feed mill this week when I go in. Susan has the schooling, learning, and experience to give me some answers that I am now quite curious about.
I too prefer cracked corn but as dun said calves especially will chew up whole corn. Not sure what the pass through rate is for mature cattle but down this way processing corn doesn't cost that much. Even with whole corn IF an opening is created in the outer husk the cow gets the nutrition from the kernel. All you're seeing in the manure is the "skeleton" and as dun said if you wash out a pile of manure you'll see all of it. If you had a microscopic analysis of it you'd also fine the fine ground corn, cottonseed meal, soybean meal and all the other ingredients in the mix but the digestible part of each has been removed by digestion.

Back to the original question if it were me any change I made would be gradual and small. Going to 50% corn immediately is asking for a problem. Oats are higher in protein than corn but lower in TDN and energy, more mellow in the ration and lower in starches. Calves really do well on them AND oats like corn and anything else might show up in the manure but it is simply remains of the hull. Nutrients have been extracted by the digestive system.
 

Bigfoot

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I don't know what the scientist or the economist say, but I can get whole corn cheap. Cracked or ground, and I've gotta pay feed mill prices. I like to mix whole corn and ddg half and half.
 

TexasBred

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Bigfoot":2cwag2s1 said:
I don't know what the scientist or the economist say, but I can get whole corn cheap. Cracked or ground, and I've gotta pay feed mill prices. I like to mix whole corn and ddg half and half.
Apparently whoever you're buying whole corn has no way to crack it. If buying in bags a 50 lb. bag of cracked corn cost me $.15 more than whole corn or $6.00 a ton. I figure it's worth it. I don't have facilities to store bulk feed ingredients.
 

dun

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I like the steam cracked corn when soaking it on old milk for feeding hogs.
 

HDRider

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TexasBred":1irskgu7 said:
Bigfoot":1irskgu7 said:
I don't know what the scientist or the economist say, but I can get whole corn cheap. Cracked or ground, and I've gotta pay feed mill prices. I like to mix whole corn and ddg half and half.
Apparently whoever you're buying whole corn has no way to crack it. If buying in bags a 50 lb. bag of cracked corn cost me $.15 more than whole corn or $6.00 a ton. I figure it's worth it. I don't have facilities to store bulk feed ingredients.
We simply do not have the mills in this area.

I was thrilled to learn about cracked vs. whole corn thing.
 

angus9259

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TexasBred":i26wuego said:
oats like corn and anything else might show up in the manure but it is simply remains of the hull. Nutrients have been extracted by the digestive system.

So why does so much oats and corn pop up in the spring out of their poop?
 

jedstivers

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farmerjan":9yedyz9q said:
dun":9yedyz9q said:
farmerjan":9yedyz9q said:
The woman that does the feed rations at our feed mill is a big believer of oats in the calf rations and one of the dairy farmers that raises alot of show/sale quality holstein heifers also feeds a lot of oats. I would think that cutting the feed by 25% corn would help a little but I wouldn't use whole shell corn. I would go to a rolled corn or a cracked corn. Whole corn does not digest nearly as well and you will see alot of corn in the manure. Dairy farmers for years have done kernel processing before the corn silage goes in the silo in order to make it easier to digest, and so they get more out of it. We don't feed any whole corn to the cows; mostly all cracked in any of the rations.
The difference in digesability between whole corn and cracked corn is less then 15% The reason you see more whole corn is because the pieces are larger. If you washed away the manure and just seperated out the corn pieces you wouldn;t see much difference in total volume of corn left.

I have been to alot of dairy meetings where there is alot of talk about TDN and all. I am no expert, but I know that there isn't a dairy farmer around that will feed whole corn in a ration anymore. I cannot say that it is only a 15% increase but to hear them talk I would think that it is alot more.
I also feed Crimped oats, not whole oats in the rations. Breaking up the outer hull and fiber will make it more assimulated by animals gut tract. I am not a nutritionist but will ask at the feed mill this week when I go in. Susan has the schooling, learning, and experience to give me some answers that I am now quite curious about.
There's a lot of diffrence in calves and cows. Cows do better with it processed.
5wt calves chew whole corn fine. By the time they are bigger they will start gulping so it's good to process it.
And cut some of the whole corn open that you see in the manure. A lot should be hollow inside.
 

Stocker Steve

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angus9259":3vhgpeas said:
TexasBred":3vhgpeas said:
oats like corn and anything else might show up in the manure but it is simply remains of the hull. Nutrients have been extracted by the digestive system.

So why does so much oats and corn pop up in the spring out of their poop?

Hard seed?
Low test weight?
Bad teeth?
Gulpers? ;-)
 

TexasBred

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angus9259":14e220p6 said:
TexasBred":14e220p6 said:
oats like corn and anything else might show up in the manure but it is simply remains of the hull. Nutrients have been extracted by the digestive system.

So why does so much oats and corn pop up in the spring out of their poop?
As I said, they have to break the hull to get the nutrients, thus the 15% or so "pass through".
 

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