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scoff if you will,, its good to see cattle that can distribute feed outside of the gutt and convert it too flesh... but he$# they aint mine :cowboy:
 
Jovid":1ifomftz said:
The Gelbvieh bull Governor was known to produce over 300 per collection session
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We just had one of ours collected and he had over 500 straws first go round. This was after breeding 40 + cows all summer. The collection people could not believe it.
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EXCELLENT!
 
Where's the other breed in this 'composite'? On paper, at least, I don't see anything but Angus anywhere in his background.
Not that there's NOT something else, but all I'm seeing is registered Angus in the pedigree.

Just 'cause he's on file with the ASA - as a potential sire of SimAngus cattle - doesn't mean he's got anything other than Angus in his background.
 
He isn't Simmental. He's all Angus. Checked his numbers. Not very impressive. Not sure what everyone is seeing in him. Looks like just another Black bull to me. Wouldn't work around my place. Don't see him working very well on Black Simmentals either. The Black Simmentals need to increase there milk numbers not drop them.
 
he is a club calf. If you go back far enough in his dams pedigree it goes back to a purebred bf. not sure what that is braford maybe here is the animal registration: http://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/a ... 15036+++++

i could not find an angus association registration duff cattle co. list his dam as high percentage angus

cattle.com lists him as a maine anjou/club calf http://www.cattle.com/semen/bulls/Duff+ ... +6626.aspx

the simmental asssoc also has the bull registered at USAAM not sure of that association either any ideas?

when i figure it out i believe that it comes to 63/64ths angus
 
luckefarm":1y6ownbh said:
he is a club calf. If you go back far enough in his dams pedigree it goes back to a purebred bf. not sure what that is braford maybe here is the animal registration: http://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/a ... 15036+++++

i could not find an angus association registration duff cattle co. list his dam as high percentage angus

cattle.com lists him as a maine anjou/club calf http://www.cattle.com/semen/bulls/Duff+ ... +6626.aspx

the simmental asssoc also has the bull registered at USAAM not sure of that association either any ideas?

when i figure it out i believe that it comes to 63/64ths angus
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This is VERY interesting! Considering the extensive investigation that has been done on his genetic background, the diligent "searching" that many people have delved into, the many "unknown factors" that cannot be located, the lack of verifiable information concerning this black male animal, and the curiosity involved in his identification details. we really DON'T KNOW who or what he is! DO we? It is just a claim as to who he is - but we really have no clue -- except what is said about him. But no tangible proof!

It is similar to the current resident of the White House!!

DOC HARRIS
 
cattleman99":3jqrcrwp said:
He isn't Simmental. He's all Angus. Checked his numbers. Not very impressive. Not sure what everyone is seeing in him. Looks like just another Black bull to me. Wouldn't work around my place. Don't see him working very well on Black Simmentals either. The Black Simmentals need to increase there milk numbers not drop them.
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But he is not registered with the angus association- AAA... Why?
 
Beats me. I'm assuming he's all Angus based on what everyone has said and that the ASA has him listed as a purebred Angus. He could be part Holstein for all I know. I'm a Simmental breeder and there is no simmental blood in him unless it's so far back you can't trace it past the extended pedigree. I'm not that familiar with the American Association but would assume he is just listed on their sight as there have been percentage calves off of him registered.
 
I was told the other breed is Amerifax and the only reason I remembered was it was a fairly obscure breed. He's more "purebred" Angus than virtually any Simmental cattle but can't be registered Angus for obvious reasons.

When the other breed is that far back in the pedigree who really cares what it is any way unless you are one of the clichéd "he wouldn't work for my herd" guys who are always looking for a reason to look down their noses at a bull.
 
With all the Ohlde cattle in his background, I suspected that if he was not a registered Angus, then he was probably out of the OCC Angus II/Basic Blacks herd, which has been 'bred up' from an Amerifax base.
The Amerifax breed is composed of 5/8 Angus-3/8 Beef Friesian (that's the 'BF' cow in his pedigree), but as many generations back as you'd have to go on this bull(I only went back 2 or 3) to find an ancestor that wasn't a reg. Angus, he'd certainly qualify as a 'purebred', if the AAA had an open herdbook; not much Friesian influence left in there at 63/64ths(or less).

That said, his epds sure don't intrigue me any - whether I was breeding Angus heifers or Simmental cows. I don't necessarily need a BW that low; WW/YW are crappy, API and TI suggest his steers won't be all that great, and neither will his daughters.
More interesting, however, than the impostor currently squatting in the White House.
 
The story I get is that he is 15/16 Angus. The other 1/16 has to be or have Simmental or why else would the American Simmental Assn. have him registered in their inventory? You can go back to the Troycastle cow on the bottom side of his pedigree but you can not see her sire or dam. He is definitely not 100% Angus. If he were he would be registered with the American Angus Assn. and he is not. If your really worried about it why not call the ASA and ask them. Im sure they know the answer to this quiz.

Circle H Ranch
 
Lucky_P":2m5h4jwd said:
That said, his epds sure don't intrigue me any - whether I was breeding Angus heifers or Simmental cows. I don't necessarily need a BW that low; WW/YW are crappy, API and TI suggest his steers won't be all that great, and neither will his daughters.
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With his EPD accuracy levels as low as they are, as listed on the Simmental webite, how could you put any trust in them being anywhere near correct? For instance, his REA EPD shows a negative number, but he scanned an adjusted 21.1 REA, according to his advertisement. Personally, I'd put a lot more stock in the scan than the EPD.

George
 
He's not registered with the ASA per se just in the database. I'm assuming they give him a registration number just for record keeping sake. He's not simmental. You can reverse upgrade and register simmental calves both in the US and Canada. In other words as long as the dam is registered with the ASA you can record calves off of her with the ASA. The sire doesn't need to be Simmental. This has been done with his calves if you check his progeny report. This is why he's on file. Just for example's sake MYTTY IN FOCUS is also in the database along with many other Angus Bulls and Bulls of other breeds..
 
Coming from somebody in the know as to Tim Ohlde's numbering system and how it pertains to this bull hereI go:

The bull is a small percentage BEEF FRIESIAN. In other words he descends from amerifax on the female side. This is the composite aspect of most of the OCC cattle and as others have stated (and stated correctly) he originates from the Angus II herd at OCC. Logic and reasoning would help you to trace parentage quite accurately on this bull.

He is registered with the ASA because they like many smaller breeds are open when it comes to allowing perecentage breeding and registration. He in my understanding was registered as a parent animal witht he ASA and that is where they get the low BW.

As far as I'm concerned on the quality of the bull... You probably can't find a closer to perfect phenotypical bull and the daughters that he produces would be very,very, very hard to beat.
 
Jake":ygeb19vf said:
Coming from somebody in the know as to Tim Ohlde's numbering system and how it pertains to this bull hereI go:

The bull is a small percentage BEEF FRIESIAN. In other words he descends from amerifax on the female side. This is the composite aspect of most of the OCC cattle and as others have stated (and stated correctly) he originates from the Angus II herd at OCC. Logic and reasoning would help you to trace parentage quite accurately on this bull.

He is registered with the ASA because they like many smaller breeds are open when it comes to allowing perecentage breeding and registration. He in my understanding was registered as a parent animal witht he ASA and that is where they get the low BW.

As far as I'm concerned on the quality of the bull... You probably can't find a closer to perfect phenotypical bull and the daughters that he produces would be very,very, very hard to beat.
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But not registerable with the AAA, correct?
 
Correct 3way. He may be more "pure" than other Registered angus out there. But he and his progeny ARE NOT registereable.
 
The other 1/16 has to be or have Simmental or why else would the American Simmental Assn. have him registered in their inventory
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Virtually every big name Angus bull is in the Simmental registry as a source for percentage programs. In fact, a big part of the reason you cannot direct link to Angus Association web data is the ASA used to use programs to scrape EPDs from them and use the info without paying for it.
 
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by Third Row on Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:27 pm

The other 1/16 has to be or have Simmental or why else would the American Simmental Assn. have him registered in their inventory

Virtually every big name Angus bull is in the Simmental registry as a source for percentage programs. In fact, a big part of the reason you cannot direct link to Angus Association web data is the ASA used to use programs to scrape EPDs from them and use the info without paying for it.

Many Angus bulls are listed with the North American Limousin Assn. also for Lim Flex registry but they are ALL also listed on the AAA website as well.



Circle H Ranch
 
I thought the reason he's not listed on the Angus site has already been discussed. He's more purebred than virtually any purebred Simmental or Limousin, it's only because the AAA is a closed book that he's not in there.
 

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