copper deficiancy

Help Support CattleToday:

TGCJ7

Member
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Location
SW Ohio
My cows are all black and are getting a pretty strong reddish - copper color on thier back toward the tops of thier shoulders. Apparently that is a sign of copper deficiancy. I"m aware that thier are a couple of reasons why that could be happening, (too much molybdum or zinc). But I'm not really sure what is the best way to correct it.

Right now they have free choice mineral that includes copper (not sure how much right now).
What are the best ways to introduce more copper into their diet (if thats what I should be doing).

I've heard that I can put some copper sulfate into thier water supply. That seems cheap and easy.
How much?

Should I just change thier mineral to something with more copper, or maybe to something more palitable so they take in more of it?

Thanks for the advice.
Tim
 

novaman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
1
Location
North Dakota
The first thing I would do is look at the mineral your feeding right now. Are they eating the proper amount according to what the label recommends? How much copper is in the mineral? Is the zinc/copper ratio at or close to 3:1? What form is the copper in the mineral? Just a few thoughts to get ya started.
 

novaman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
1
Location
North Dakota
kenny thomas":ctfkys60 said:
Novaman, why 3-1 ratio? What I am using now is about 2-1.
3:1 is the ratio that is recommended by all the nutritionists I've worked with or talked to.
 

novaman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
1
Location
North Dakota
kenny thomas":bnhvr2kl said:
Now another stupid question, is 3-1 better or worse than 2-1. I looked at a flyer and I can buy from 2-1 to 4-1.
I guess I can't answer that with any certainty but my guess would be that a higher (3 or 4) would be better than 2:1 because zinc is very important for hoof health among other things. Then again if what your doing is working why mess with it. By the way organic zinc, copper, etc are worth the extra money IMO.
 

1982vett

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
9,505
Reaction score
303
Location
Central Texas
novaman":1kgn1gbp said:
kenny thomas":1kgn1gbp said:
Now another stupid question, is 3-1 better or worse than 2-1. I looked at a flyer and I can buy from 2-1 to 4-1.
I guess I can't answer that with any certainty but my guess would be that a higher (3 or 4) would be better than 2:1 because zinc is very important for hoof health among other things. Then again if what your doing is working why mess with it. By the way organic zinc, copper, etc are worth the extra money IMO.

Something to think about:
Just as ag lime makes fertilizer nutrients more available to plants, other elements interact with each other. Over consumption of one can lead to deficiencies in another.
http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2004 ... T345.shtml

Sulfur, iron, or zinc reduces copper absorption by the gut in cattle.
 

KNERSIE

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,058
Reaction score
2
Location
3rd World
Consult your vet on this. Too much Cu is toxic too little and you'll have very poor conception rates. Don't guess on Cu, get definitive answers before making a small problem a big one.

If you are indeed Cu deficient its as simple as injecting Multimin +Cu 4 weeks before and 4 weeks after calving.
 

S&WSigma40VEShooter

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
805
Reaction score
0
Location
East TN
TGCJ7":1h4mh2p2 said:
My cows are all black and are getting a pretty strong reddish - copper color on thier back toward the tops of thier shoulders. Apparently that is a sign of copper deficiancy. I"m aware that thier are a couple of reasons why that could be happening, (too much molybdum or zinc). But I'm not really sure what is the best way to correct it.

Right now they have free choice mineral that includes copper (not sure how much right now).
What are the best ways to introduce more copper into their diet (if thats what I should be doing).

I've heard that I can put some copper sulfate into thier water supply. That seems cheap and easy.
How much?

Should I just change thier mineral to something with more copper, or maybe to something more palitable so they take in more of it?

Thanks for the advice.
Tim


Ive found that if you feed em a mineral with at least 2800 ppm then you wont have that problem.
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
30,765
Reaction score
269
Location
Heart of Texas
novaman":3pve7yjo said:
kenny thomas":3pve7yjo said:
Now another stupid question, is 3-1 better or worse than 2-1. I looked at a flyer and I can buy from 2-1 to 4-1.
I guess I can't answer that with any certainty but my guess would be that a higher (3 or 4) would be better than 2:1 because zinc is very important for hoof health among other things. Then again if what your doing is working why mess with it. By the way organic zinc, copper, etc are worth the extra money IMO.

True....I'd check to see if the guarantee showed the level of iron as well. Iron binds copper tremendously and could be the culprit. And make sure at least some of the zinc, manganese, copper and cobalt are in organic form as they are more completely utilized than inorganic minerals. Regardless of the gurantees on the tag if 90% of them go right thru the cattle they're worthless.
 
OP
T

TGCJ7

Member
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Location
SW Ohio
Looking at my mineral...
Copper (min) - 1000ppm
Zinc (min) - 4000ppm
No iron listed.

Does this look like the problem?

How do I tell if anything is in an organic form?
 

novaman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
1
Location
North Dakota
What form are the minerals? Copper sulfate? Copper chloride? Copper amino acid complex (organic form)? Have you taken water samples? I have lots of issues with minerals in my water and they must be accounted for.
 

S&WSigma40VEShooter

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
805
Reaction score
0
Location
East TN
novaman":3hl5hkt8 said:
What form are the minerals? Copper sulfate? Copper chloride? Copper amino acid complex (organic form)? Have you taken water samples? I have lots of issues with minerals in my water and they must be accounted for.


Here are the ingredients in mine. On this mineral my cows have high conception rates. This year I have thus far had 4 cows calf within 10-11 months of last calf.

Dicalcium Phosphate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Calcium carbonate, Salt, Yeast Culture, Magnesium Oxide, Cottonseed meal, dried cane molasses, Ferrous Carbonate, Zinc Oxide, Maganous Oxide, Zinc Methionine, Copper Chloride, ethylsomethingdiamine, Dihydriodide, Cobalt carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Iron Oxide, Vitamin a acetate, Cholecalciferol (source of vitamin d3 supplement) Vitamin e supplement, Natural and artificial flavoring.

Calcium Min 15.00%
Calcium Max 18.00%
Phosphorous Min 4.00%
Salt Min 18.00%
Salt Max 22.00%
Magnesium Min 4.00%
Copper Min 2800 ppm
Selenium min 32ppm
Vitamin a 250,000 USP Units/LB
Vitamin d-3 50,000 UPS Units/LB
Vitamin E Min 150 INT Units/lb
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
30,765
Reaction score
269
Location
Heart of Texas
All those various minerals probably work well for your area. No one mineral fits every area. If the list of ingredeints says Ferrous Sulfate or Ferrous Carbonate you can bet it has quite a bit of iron in it even tho there is no guarantee. Your organic minerals will be shown as amino acid complexes or chelates depending on the source. Nova made a good point about having your water source tested. This can and has been problems in some areas.
 

Latest posts

Top