cooling room?

[iowa hawkeyes]

thanks for taking all the heat VCC. I've been busy at our county fair (showing our hairy cattle :roll: ) the past while. I get irritated by posters griping about the show cattle industry. If you don't like it, don't come to this topic. I don't like horses so I never read the horse section. There will always be someone that pushes the envelope, even with slick sheared cattle. GET OVER IT.

So exactly how do you characterize the show cattle industry.
well, I suppose the show cattle industry is mostly higher end club calves, but I would also include the breeding cattle that are brought to the big shows too. They are not taken care of the same way pasture cattle are. That makes some people angry, but I have always said that what we do is a hobby. We don't camp, snowmobile, boat, motorcycle, or other stuff a lot of people do. We've had some cattle do very well over the years, but we aren't that big a deal compared to others that's for sure.

Coming from someone who's kids showed what looks like some real nice real world cattle I would have said that your family was a very nice example of what I had been saying. Thank you, but I'm sure some would argue that they aren't real world cattle. We live in a county where the only pasture is creek bottom. Our pasture is 11 acres. We give our cows grain and creep our show calves. We want them to reach their genetic potential and look their best. What's really incredible is that without knowing it or for sure meaning to you have made my point perfectly. There fore I will quote YOU

one more pic of the Heat Wave steer. He weighed 1390 and got second in class behind the eventually champion steer. Daughter learned a good life lesson on this one. He was the hairiest calf by far, and I think she thought she was going to win but he just didn't get the job done that day.

SOOOOOOOOOOOO why not just eliminate the hair and make it about the Calf and the kid.
Because it was fun to grow the hair! My kids were out there every day and I'm hoping it teaches a little work ethic. Our calf had faults and probably wasn't fat enough. The calf that won didn't have much hair, but was structurally better and fat. (BTW that calf was one we bred and sold) Slick shearing is a cop out and I highly doubt it'll happen in Iowa.
That's my only real gripe. I just chose to try to be a bit more constructive about than you. Since this is a free forum and we still have free speech I will just go ahead and voice my opinion even if it displeases you.

And I really do want an explanation of the Show cattle industry Whatever that actually is. I personally have nothing against breed shows but even there it gets to be more about the beauty pagent thing than trying to display real world functional examples of the breed.

BTW I could just get over it but I would much rather engage you or VCC in a dialogue that might enlighten not just me but others here who aren't as fond of arguing as I am. For what it's worth I really enjoyed seeing your kids showing Herefords and that grey composite steer. It's the Heat Wave BS that makes me want to throw up every time I see those kind of Worthless 1400 lb poodles.

 

[3waycross]

I don't understand why slick shearing is a "cop out". To me it is just the opposite. A cop out at least to me is what you say or do to avoid reality. Growing hair in the dark out of season is not reality.

BTW congrats on breeding the champion steer. The fact that he beat you with a lot less hair would seem to make the case for better cattle and less hair. Would it not?

One thing you said would at least to me anyway changes the dynamic of this conversation and that is when you characterize the show deal as a hobby. If that is the case then I would say all bets are off. It is not about raising cattle for the BEEF industry it is something else entirely. However it would sure be great if these kids were working toward the goal of the perfect BEEF animal(reproducable on a large scale) instead of the best poodle. That to me would definately make the whole thing make a lot more sense.

For what it's worth I went out to the fair last evening to check the progress of the steer I sold to the little girl and see what the others had brought. I saw nothing there that would be considered a big time club calf. Some hair but not a lot. I am pretty sure there were no Heat Wave sons there.

 

[iowa hawkeyes]

I don't understand why slick shearing is a "cop out". To me it is just the opposite. A cop out at least to me is what you say or do to avoid reality. Growing hair in the dark out of season is not reality.
It's called a show and I think that the hair is part of the "show". Feeding grain to cows and creep feeding calves is not reality to some people either.

BTW congrats on breeding the champion steer. The fact that he beat you with a lot less hair would seem to make the case for better cattle and less hair. Would it not?
In a different environment I think he would have had hair. Clearly though, the lack of hair didn't matter.

One thing you said would at least to me anyway changes the dynamic of this conversation and that is when you characterize the show deal as a hobby. If that is the case then I would say all bets are off. It is not about raising cattle for the BEEF industry it is something else entirely. However it would sure be great if these kids were working toward the goal of the perfect BEEF animal(reproducable on a large scale) instead of the best poodle. That to me would definately make the whole thing make a lot more sense.
We are trying to do that with our Herfs. The "poodle" was the crossbred my daughter and husband wanted for the county fair. He didn't cost that much and FWIW, I'm not a big HW fan.

For what it's worth I went out to the fair last evening to check the progress of the steer I sold to the little girl and see what the others had brought. I saw nothing there that would be considered a big time club calf. Some hair but not a lot. I am pretty sure there were no Heat Wave sons there.

 

[VCC]

3-waycross, half the time those HW that make you puke are really the cleanup bull that produced a clubby calf, you just get more money for the Heatwave name. I enjoy the dialog as long as it stays a discussion and not a fight; this was a pleasant discussion as far as I was concerned.

I do not like the slick shear deal, put that is a preference, plus the fact that are show is outside, calves do sun burn. We bring ours home for a couple of weeks before slaughter every year and I do not think they would do well burnt to a crisp. It is hard enough with the pigs I held for 2 weeks after the fair (Do not like putting the hogs on the plant trailer, way to much stress prior to slaughter for me) 24 x 24 pen that is 80% covered and we had sun burnt pigs.

A good judge should pick the best one with or without hair, when it comes down to it 2 calves that are the same the one with hair will win. (Work truck, go to town truck, same truck one with leather and chrome one with mud and blood) the pretty on is the one you look at.

You have the Char Cross that the little girl is showing right, or is that some one else? He looks good from the profile, I would like so see a little more neck extinction and a tick more length but that is being picky. He looks like he was fed right and should grade high,
And in my opinion there should be a basic triangle for judging, the look, structure and final product. The one that combines all three the best should win, with or with out hair.

The majors that have hair show and all the calves have hair, those calves look cool the same goes for when they all are slicked. When you get to county and it is all over the place that is where you get complaining. Our state fair is after county so if you intend on showing the same animal at both it would be difficult to go from a slick to a haired deal.

If we all thought the same it sure would get boring.

 

[Third Row]

Then these kids could be judged by their work instead of their daddy's bankroll.

One comment on a fallacy, eliminating hair does quite the opposite of making the show about something other than daddy's bankroll. I prefer slick shear shows every day of the week and twice on Sunday but if anything it makes it more expensive, not less, to win.

You can't work a slick shear calf (well, without cheating) into beating a better calf. The calf is what it is and those genetics are not the slightest bit cheap.

 

[Avalon]

Iowa Hawkeyes asked about cooling rooms, not wether we work hair and shape a calf or not. If you're going to show your cattle at a fair and they allow hair, then you are a brain dead fool if you you do not work hair also. It is a competition for who has the best looking calf. If the rules allow hair then we use it to our advantage. So when in Rome...However, I do have a not so good opinion regarding cool rooms. They pose health hazards to your cattle. 1. The cooling unit can go out while you are away. being that these rooms are designed to be air tight guess what, you can kill your entire string in one day. 2. I have seen cattle in Texas be put into these rooms on 100 degree days. Usually temps inside are kept aroud 60. They are borought in before dawn, let out after dark. This supposedly facilitates the winter effect of a shorter day thereby causing melatonin to be released. hopefully generating the thicker longer hair. When you let these cattle out at night with the that hair coat they remain hot. I believe that many of these calves stay on antibiotics to keep them from getting sick during the summer. I personall believe that there is to much stress placed on a calf that goes in and out of cool rooms. 3. The time requirements for using the cool room effectivley. 4. The expense of a properley built one. I prefer to use multuple fans, rinse and brush daily and keep my cattle on a well balanced feed program that includes vitamans, minerals and other additives that promote hair growth. On another note for thoseof you who frown on the show ring, I do think that for adults showing is a waist of time energy and money it should be a thing of the past since we have so many forms of media in which we can show our cattle to others right from our own place. But for the youth, I still think it is a valuable tool to teach them many life lessons. Not just about winning but about caring for cattle, learning to evaluate and working hard. I know. I have two boys that were'nt such big winners in the ring. But are big winners in life due in part to their 4-H and FFA experiences. MO

 

[Avalon]

OOPS I should have said Iowa-Angus asked the question. my-bad

 

[CPL]

Believe me it doesn't hit close to home. I don't raise show cattle, nor do I think I ever will.

But I guess the comment that really stuck out in my mind was wanting to "level the playing field".

I'm just getting sick of hearing that. Everything has to be fair, and equal. Somebody's got an "unfair" advantage because they worked hard and others stand back and try to take it from them.

Or you can't win with the current rules, so they need to be changed to better accommodate you. :roll:

There will always be those that rise to the top in anything they do, whether it be in the showring, basketball, business, etc, etc.

 

[3waycross]

Believe me it doesn't hit close to home. I don't raise show cattle, nor do I think I ever will.
I don't either!
But I guess the comment that really stuck out in my mind was wanting to "level the playing field". Level the playing field does not happen at the end of the game it happens at the beginning.

I'm just getting sick of hearing that. Everything has to be fair, and equal. Somebody's got an "unfair" advantage because they worked hard and others stand back and try to take it from them.
Is it fair and equal if there are 10 kids showing in a 4H program and 9 of them are guaranteed to be fighting for 2nd place before they even attend the first weigh-in, because one family has the funds to spend on a $3000 calf to win a show where the winner will sell for $3000? You are making my point for me.

Or you can't win with the current rules, so they need to be changed to better accommodate you. :roll: I don't needto win anything. What I need for these kids to be rewarded for their hard work.

There will always be those that rise to the top in anything they do, whether it be in the showring, basketball, business, etc, etc.

Of course there are. This is America and that's the way it's supposed to be. What does that have to do with one or two kids in a competition starting with an unfair advantage.

BTW for what it's worth I spoke to the little girl who bought the RA cross steer from me that I posted on another thread. She competed in 8 riding and showmanship events yesterday and won 5, second in 2, and DQ'd in the other one or she would have won it. She did this on a "rescue" horse that she trained herself. She is 12, and between her horse and her steers she is out there 4 to 5 hours a day doing it all herself. This is why I am "giving" her a registered Balancer heifer to use for a heifer project.(she has to give her back after the project is done but gets to keep the first calf) I will also help her with the feed the first year, so that, her investment is mostly labor. I am simply trying to help a very hardworking outstanding young lady get a start on a cowherd and trying to show her that hard work actually pays off.

 

[tel]

I used to take pride in training the hair to make it pop.But i believe a good judge can see past a good clip job.the people i worked for didnt have cool rooms.they were there to promote their cattle .they took teams to promote their consistency.But you know what?doesnt matter what breed ,weather blue black deep red or whatever the colour,when they first drop their coat in summer and all glossy with health 'its a beautiful thing '

 

[sim.-ang.king]

If you are all so crazy about the hair then do what you want if you think it should be a 1/4" then cut it that way but if you think it should be 3" then grow it that way but what it all comes down to is every person has to raise the best animal to win, hair or not :cowboy:

 

[show steer up]

Hi 3waycross
It's been over a year since I have been on cattle today and I see you are still trying to convert show cattle people.
It's a whole different industry, one that you could never figure out. We all know you are to old and stubborn to change you ways so why waist your fragile fingers on typed words, on a board you obviously hate.
I think you post on this board for no other reason than to give yourself something to do during the day. As we all know your cattle don't need the TLC and constant caring for like show cattle.
Nice to see you are still confused and long winded.

I am simply trying to help a very hardworking outstanding young lady get a start on a cowherd and trying to show her that hard work actually pays off.

Maybe you should take her to an auction to get real show cattle and then all of her hard work wouldn't be in vain. No, sorry then you couldn't live through her efforts, "daddy's bankroll". Seams to me your kinda liking this show thing after all. You have a lot of self pride over helping her. Go show daddy!

 

[3waycross]

Hi 3waycross
It's been over a year since I have been on cattle today and I see you are still trying to convert show cattle people.
It's a whole different industry, one that you could never figure out. We all know you are to old and stubborn to change you ways so why waist your fragile fingers on typed words, on a board you obviously hate.
I think you post on this board for no other reason than to give yourself something to do during the day. As we all know your cattle don't need the TLC and constant caring for like show cattle.
Nice to see you are still confused and long winded.

I am simply trying to help a very hardworking outstanding young lady get a start on a cowherd and trying to show her that hard work actually pays off.

Maybe you should take her to an auction to get real show cattle and then all of her hard work wouldn't be in vain. No, sorry then you couldn't live through her efforts, "daddy's bankroll". Seams to me your kinda liking this show thing after all. You have a lot of self pride over helping her. Go show daddy!

Thanks for all your good advice. If I need anymore help you will sure be the first one I call.

For the record; if you want to raise worthless pigs and call them cattle that is sure up to you, but please don't try to tell me they are good for anything besides being paraded around a showring cuz we both know they are not.

The calf I sold this young lady took first in his class against some "show" bred calves and kicked their butts in the carcass competiton. That's good enuf for me.

Now go away and grow up. Maybe if you come back in 5 years you will have a different perspective. (more like an adult)

 

[show steer up]

The calf I sold this young lady took first in his class against some "show" bred calves and kicked their butts in the carcass competiton. That's good enuf for me.

WOW congrats to the young lady. I can't wait to see the pic's of this awesome range steer that took his class. I bet he was a real winner in your mind. Remember on this board a picture is worth a thousand words, so post some soon. OH and while your at it get a picture of the little girl and her trophy/ribbon from the carcass competition, I would love to see her smiling face.

 

[VCC]

3-Way, I am happy for you and congratulations to the young lady. I thank what gets others riled up is the way your obvious dislike of show cattle and the people who show them comes across.
It is a hobby or family activity; many youth show their animal form the time they purchase it until the sell it as a fat steer. If this is the hobby they choose it cost as much for feed, travel and hotels to show a good or bad steer might as well get a god one. This no different then the family that rodeos, or plays travel baseball they will have the best horse or equipment they can afford. Just so happens at the end of your show year you sell your team and start over next year. If the only interested is in the raising, feeding and selling of the project there is no need for a show.
If you stay in the practice of helping youth raise and show steers, in time you will find yourself thinking you know if we bred cow (fill in # here) to (club calf bull name here) I bet we could win.

Every time anyone complains about hair, how much money someone is spending or where the other cattle are from it is because they aren't winning. If they we were winning they would not have a reason to complain.

Do it the way you thank it is right and let the rest do what they do. There is always someone with more money, greener pasture, better or more of something, we just need to worry about what we do with what we have.

 

[show steer up]

:clap: VCC :tiphat:
and if I may add to you excellent comment.
Fun and hard work is what it's all about. Keeping the family together and enjoying the road trips to your next jackpot. some of my children s finest memories are with showing their cattle. Spending long hours in the barn together working their cattle. Last but not least, the life long friends they have made at the shows.