• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

COOL and National Animal ID System?

Help Support CattleToday:

branxchar&charx

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
120
Reaction score
0
Location
northwest oklahoma
i was just wondering what do other people think of these programs. should they be mandatory, opinions of pros and cons, etc...
i already researched into these really deep and was just wanting more opinions from farmers, ranchers, people involved in agriculture, etc. than the usual few people commenting in farm magazines and people from the city
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
We need the ID. I believe it will make consumers feel safer and protect producers as well. I would be very disturbed if someone 100 miles away put the brakes on my operation. If cattle were found there to have bse it could shut us down as well. Or if it were my operation and bse turned up it could potentionally shut down farmers/ranchers miles from me that dont have it. At least with ID my operation may be shut down but wont interfere with my neighbors.
 

certherfbeef

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Messages
3,052
Reaction score
0
Location
OH
I agree that we need the ID. My concern is wether or not I will be able to afford to implement the mandatory method that is chosen. It will be labor intesive to start up and what kind of high dollar equipment will I have to purchase? Any insite for me?????
 

Tman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
Messages
156
Reaction score
0
Location
The Alamo City
I agree with the ID system for reasons of protecting the beef industry as well. As mentioned above a BSE breakout could be contained quickly and eliminated. The confidence of the consumer might be shaken but should rebound and the market should stabilize sonn aftwerwards. I am surprised that everyone seemed to agree though. I figured that most people would object to more govermental oversite.
 

la4angus

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
0
Location
South La
Probaly won't be much more than ear tagging your calves.
This is like not Testing all cattle for BSE. CreekStone can do it for $15.00 to $20.00 per hd. USDA says it will cost $70.00 per hd. No matter the cost, consider how many billions of $ we have lost and are loosing by having the export mkts. shut off to us. Look at our friends to the north of us. Ones that feel that it is to expensive to do will have to find another way to enjoy life.
 

Campground Cattle

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
2,533
Reaction score
0
Location
East Texas
I have mixed feelings. I hate more government control, not opposed to some sort of tagging system to sale cattle.
 

la4angus

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
0
Location
South La
Anonymous":384ngq01 said:
So are you against testing all of the cattle ?
Not if that is what it takes to get our export markets opened again.
If it can be done for $15.00 per hd, it would probaly return at least $100.00 per hd in the price we receive.
The Industry needs to Focus on the "Major" and not on the "Minor".
I know of an old saying "The Customer is Always Right."
Many businesses have gone under because management thought that they knew more "About what the Customers Wanted than the Customer".
 

certherfbeef

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Messages
3,052
Reaction score
0
Location
OH
I thought they were talking of some sort of "permenant" ID. In my opinion ear tags are not permenant. But then again a brand can be altered too. I'm for the ID and if it is simple like an ear tag that is good and affordable. I am all for protection of the beef industry, and if it means adding an ear tag or some sort of high tech ID, I will make the acomodations to get it done. Just curious what everyone thought the form of ID would be.
 

la4angus

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
0
Location
South La
certherfbeef":3n0jubml said:
I thought they were talking of some sort of "permenant" ID. In my opinion ear tags are not permenant. But then again a brand can be altered too. I'm for the ID and if it is simple like an ear tag that is good and affordable. I am all for protection of the beef industry, and if it means adding an ear tag or some sort of high tech ID, I will make the acomodations to get it done. Just curious what everyone thought the form of ID would be.
We are probaly talking about RFID Microchips in the ear.
 

certherfbeef

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Messages
3,052
Reaction score
0
Location
OH
I just did a web search for radio frequency ID. Quite the technoligical boom there!!! Seems that you can put a chip in anything and everything.
Where can I find the info for the cattle specific RFID. Is there a site about the mandatory ID? Sorry I'm a little behind. Thanks
 

Oldtimer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
3,908
Reaction score
0
Location
Northeast Montana
certherfbeef":2nvkhc5l said:
I just did a web search for radio frequency ID. Quite the technoligical boom there!!! Seems that you can put a chip in anything and everything.
Where can I find the info for the cattle specific RFID. Is there a site about the mandatory ID? Sorry I'm a little behind. Thanks

If you want info and the proposed plan go to the USDA website under the APHIS section- The proposed plan is 70 some pages long- But don't get in too big of hurry- USDA still doesn't know how they are going to implement this and have not issued any farm identification numbers yet-they are holding comment sessions throughout the nation this summer and fall.

I'm not against the mandatory ID- but I can see some major costs and problems that could come with it. Since I have always been a strong believer in COOL, I believe if we get mandatory ID we should also get mandatory COOL. I feel consumers have the right to know where the meat they are eating comes from.
 

la4angus

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
0
Location
South La
Since I have always been a strong believer in COOL, I believe if we get mandatory ID we should also get mandatory COOL. I feel consumers have the right to know where the meat they are eating comes from.[/quote]


If we have Mandatory ID, We definitely should have Mandatory COOL
 

Oldtimer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
3,908
Reaction score
0
Location
Northeast Montana
Some of the problems I see coming with mandatory ID after reading APHIS proposed plan-
1. Many non-brand states will have to create a completely new department to handle recording (computerized repository), tracking, reading the ID's - In brand inspection states we already have the inspectors and require inspections on livestock whenever they cross county lines (part of the proposal for future years), so the basic structure is there- but there is the cost of RFID readers for these inspectors, the added time it will take to work large herds. These are all costs that could be added back to the producer. And people complain now about paying 50cents per head for inspections.

2 Part of the proposal is for all cattle that are going interstate to be ID tracked by the veterinarians when they do the health inspections- this could get quite costly- as most know, vets aren't cheap, and in some areas any that will work on the ranch or on large animals are quite scarce-some areas the vets are several 100 miles away, and those involved would have to be equipped with RFID readers and computer hookups to USDA (the plan is for the vets to do computerized health inspections that will instantly be computer transferred with the cattle ID numbers to a state and/or federal repository)- One vet I visited with said that $10 a head plus mileage would probably not be out of line for cost. Not bad for 1 or 2 cows- but think if you're shipping 500 to 1000 calves.

3. One of the other problems is determining what type of RFID marking device will be used- RFID tags have a problem with tag loss's- underskin microchip installation has a problem with chips moving, abcess problems, and either you will need an applicator or have to hire a vet to do the application. Tags sound the best to me since then if need be the ID number could be hand read- save the little guy with 4 or 5 cows the expense of purchasing an RFID reader- but the tags or chips will be an added expense- I've heard numbers thrown around between $3 and $10.

These are just a few of the problems, that I think can and will be worked thru- but I don't see it being done in the time frame that USDA thinks it will. They are going to try some pilot programs in certain areas (Montana may be one) to try and work out the bugs. But it will cost big-time. I just hope they don't try to stick the entire cost back on the cow/calf producer.
 

Texan

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
1,887
Reaction score
0
Location
East Texas
While I don't like the idea of Mandatory ID, I can see the value of it and could support it, assuming a level playing field for all. That level playing field includes not placing another burden on our market operators to do something for free because some operators refuse to.

And no matter who pays for the method of ID, we will all have some financial risk that we wouldn't otherwise have. Sell your calves at weaning? Well, that's too bad. You've still got to run them through the chute before you load them. More chances for that broken leg or neck. And its a sure thing on the stress and shrink. What about those crippled bulls that you could have just eased down the alley and onto the truck? Process them through the chute anyway. I can see a lot of costs for producers that we'll just have to absorb. Even with all of that, I suspect that its probably the thing to do for the future of our Industry.

With that said, I guess I'll have to fight you guys over the mandatory COOL issue. We've got too much government mandated stuff to put up with now. Anything we ask the government to do for us ends up being a disaster. Look at mandatory price reporting. Surely we haven't already forgotten how much less price reporting we had after that?

I agree that the consumer has a right to a safe product and to know where that product came from. But, in my opinion, if COOL was really such an important issue to the consumer, the marketplace would have already provided for it. Just as the packers have made great strides with some of their voluntary food safety practices, I feel like they would do the same with labeling if there was a definite dollar value associated with it.

Why not try a workable, voluntary COOL before we ask for something that we as producers will almost certainly bear the burden of paying for? Industry groups like the Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers are trying to work one out now. Why not give them a chance? Then if it doesn't work, we can always move forward later with the feds making us do it. I'm just afraid that if we start down the mandatory road, we won't like what we get, but by then it'll be too late!
 

la4angus

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
0
Location
South La
Why not try a workable, voluntary COOL before we ask for something that we as producers will almost certainly bear the burden of paying for?

Texan
What countries do you think will voluntarily label their products as to Country of Origin without it being Mandary to do so.
 

Texan

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
1,887
Reaction score
0
Location
East Texas
la4angus":135i9ce9 said:
Texan
What countries do you think will voluntarily label their products as to Country of Origin without it being Mandary to do so.

La, if we label ours as produced in the United States of America, the consumer can decide if they prefer it over beef carrying no label. Other countries don't have to label their's.
 

Oldtimer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
3,908
Reaction score
0
Location
Northeast Montana
Texan":1d6neamz said:
la4angus":1d6neamz said:
Texan
What countries do you think will voluntarily label their products as to Country of Origin without it being Mandary to do so.

La, if we label ours as produced in the United States of America, the consumer can decide if they prefer it over beef carrying no label. Other countries don't have to label their's.

The problem Texan is that the packers won't label our own- They use the same USDA inspected stamp on Aussie beef, Canadian beef, Mexican beef and Uraquayan beef as they do on American beef- their is no way for the consumer to tell what country it came from.

Both cattle groups, NCBA and R-CALF have been trying to get the USDA to only allow the USDA inspected stamp to be put on US slaughtered cattle- Both NCBA and R-CALF supported mandatory COOL at one time, but divided on definition. I agree with R-CALFs definition-born, raised, and slaughtered in the US- that is a true US product.

COOL is not a new issue- its been around for years- the packers have had years to do a Voluntary COOL- but they don't want it - they want the ability to import beef and pass it off as a domestic product.
Most housewives when questioned think that the USDA inspected stamp guarantees them a US product- it doesn't - its a fraud put forward by the packers and retailers and supported by the USDA.

As far as cost -mandatory ID will cost the producer much more than COOL ever will.
 

la4angus

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
0
Location
South La
Texan":26s38swh said:
la4angus":26s38swh said:
Texan
What countries do you think will voluntarily label their products as to Country of Origin without it being Mandary to do so.

La, if we label ours as produced in the United States of America, the consumer can decide if they prefer it over beef carrying no label. Other countries don't have to label their's.

Texan
Thanks.This could turn out to be an interesting discussion.
You have made some good points.
I think we may all like to hear more of your thoughts
 

Latest posts

Top