Converting to pasture questions

[Kell-inKY]

After reading some posts on here I have some concerns.

After a lot of thought, we decided to go big or go home and convert an existing (apprx) 20 acres from rowcrops (soybean last year) to pasture. It came off so late I could not plant anything in the fall. My plan was to plant annual ryegrass and let our cattle (5 heifers calving this spring hopefully, 1 bull) graze that in the summer then replant permanent in the fall, but after reading some posts this may not hold up well and be a waste of money? I cannot plant fescue as it does not do well in the spring here after it dries out in the summer, or so I have heard from countless locals, plus when I tried planting it in the yard in the past.

I don't want to waste my time, that is a lot to disc up (7' disc, nothing big!) and the annual ryegrass seed alone for that many acres would not be cheap, then turn around and disc it again to plant in the fall. Last spring I experimented on a half acre of rye and the cattle ate it down to the ground, but it seemed to come back up a little after some rest.

If I delay my planting I can go ahead and have them do corn (lease) this year but will have to wait to expand my herd. Plus the corn would be more difficult to plant into. I can sustain the cattle I have on what I have currently, or if I sell and go the feeder direction, I just will not be able to do anything big this year, but we would get a check from the corn.

Any thoughts of the ryegrass in my area for spring? Maybe this is done to death, but I thought I had it figured out. Thanks in advance, Kelly

 

[Lucky_P]

Annual ryegrass will germinate quickly - but even a spring planting will bolt and try to set seed, then die, as soon as it gets hot here. We're talking...it'll be gone before the first of June, more than likely. You're likely gonna need a summer annual - bin-run corn disked in, sudan-sudex, pearl millet, etc.
Or, let them plant corn again and grow your herd a little slower. I've no-tilled fescue/orchardgrass/clover into corn stubble after harvest, with no significant problems.

Since you're starting with a 'blank slate'... absolutely plant a 'novel endophyte' tall fescue + a good orchardgrass(Persist has been the best-accepted OG I've ever planted) and a mix of ladino and red clover. I'm still not convinced that it makes sense to kill off an established stand of 'dirty' KY-31 to replace with something else, but on clean corn/bean ground...definitely go with a 'novel endophyte'...NOT endophyte free, as those won't stand up to any degree of overgrazing or drought conditions.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Soybeans leave behind a great seed bed. Corn not so much.

 

[tom4018]

The sudan/sudex grows fast and holds up good in the summer. Not sure how it would be to plant in the fall behind it. In pasture ground I prefer a white clover as it seems to hold up to grazing better. You could disc and seed whatever you decided to in the spring then no-till what you want in the spring. Some of the counties have no-till drills to rent, our soil conservation district does, would be a little quicker than disc it all again.

 

[littletom]

I am going from beans to pasture on some ground also. But fescue works here in my part of ky. Planning on a mixture of fescue orchardgrass and clover. But will not graze it this year but do hay and again next spring. I would pencil it out some leases are still pretty high.

 

[Kell-inKY]

So what is the consensus on planting the fescue/orchardgrass/clover mix here in the spring, sounds like littletom has had some success at it? To put it in early enough I would have to rent the drill and forgo the disking since it is pretty wet in my fields early spring. There are a lot of small weeds that I have no idea what they are out there right now. Like a green carpet of some grass, and of course onion grass which the cattle are eating I guess because it is the only thing green and tall enough to get? I'm not a big fan of spraying roundup on everything but will if I have to, disking would have been preferred.

I also need LOTS of lime, but as usual out here, the lime guy's truck broke down and I did not get that last fall either. My soil test calls for 3 tons per acre, but I have heard if I do not work it in than I should only apply a ton at a time (season?) Can I apply this early spring? I know it should be in the fall but I am at the mercy of others.

 

[tom4018]

So what is the consensus on planting the fescue/orchardgrass/clover mix here in the spring, sounds like littletom has had some success at it? To put it in early enough I would have to rent the drill and forgo the disking since it is pretty wet in my fields early spring. There are a lot of small weeds that I have no idea what they are out there right now. Like a green carpet of some grass, and of course onion grass which the cattle are eating I guess because it is the only thing green and tall enough to get? I'm not a big fan of spraying roundup on everything but will if I have to, disking would have been preferred.

I also need LOTS of lime, but as usual out here, the lime guy's truck broke down and I did not get that last fall either. My soil test calls for 3 tons per acre, but I have heard if I do not work it in than I should only apply a ton at a time (season?) Can I apply this early spring? I know it should be in the fall but I am at the mercy of others.

Lime wise I have seen 2 tons a acre put on existing ground with no problem. I my opinion seeding grass in the spring is just a gamble as it depends on how quick it gets hot and dry, some years it works others you lose it.

 

[Kell-inKY]

Yep, I'm not a gambler either so I am going to give up on that direction. And if planting ryegrass is going to be a waste of time/money as well then I will probably have to just have it rowcropped. Just feels like keep waiting on things beyond my control to get that pasture going. Soybeans had to be replanted last year and that pushed it WAY back, too much rain and deer pressure.

So, the corn SHOULD be harvested in time for me to plant this fall? Guess I will get to taking down a lot of the electric fence I put up around the perimeter to let the cattle graze the stubble (in the way of the planting)

Thanks for the input everyone, much appreciated.

 

[littletom]

I did 10 acres the second week of april last year. It stoped raining the third week of may last year and we did not get a drop till july. That field of fescue og and clover is fine we got a fall cutting off it. Yes you can loose it all. I would put the lime on it even if leaseing, it will take a few months to get your ph up it sounds like you are in at least mid 5's. The corn coming off is on the farmer it should or could come off at least mid oct. But I know of corn still standing now. If you plant that in permenant pasture and put cows on to soon I doubt you will be happy with your efforts. It is a costly and time consuming ordeal to go back to grass. In my area a lot of fences should have never came down. I think we will see acres with weeds in my area as people won't go to effort or expense. With the downward trend of grain!

 

[M5farm]

Can y'all not grow tiff leaf 3 millet in Kentucky. It is an excellent Summer grazing alternative for prepared land. Graze all summer and then in fall turn it under and plant your fescue and clover If it's viable in your area.

 

[tom4018]

Yep, I'm not a gambler either so I am going to give up on that direction. And if planting ryegrass is going to be a waste of time/money as well then I will probably have to just have it rowcropped. Just feels like keep waiting on things beyond my control to get that pasture going. Soybeans had to be replanted last year and that pushed it WAY back, too much rain and deer pressure.

So, the corn SHOULD be harvested in time for me to plant this fall? Guess I will get to taking down a lot of the electric fence I put up around the perimeter to let the cattle graze the stubble (in the way of the planting)

Thanks for the input everyone, much appreciated.

A lot depends also on the ground, some areas it may work good. Bottom ground would have a better chance than higher ground.

 

[Bigfoot]

If I ever wanted it planted, I'd plant it this spring. Id probably drill it to. If lucky says the endophyte free will work, then it'll work. I have no experience with it. I'd plant Ky 31, at 30 pounds to the acre. I'd wait to plant white clover after I'd killed off the broad leafs. You'll have your fair share behind beans.

 

[dun]

If I ever wanted it planted, I'd plant it this spring. Id probably drill it to. If lucky says the endophyte free will work, then it'll work. I have no experience with it. I'd plant Ky 31, at 30 pounds to the acre. I'd wait to plant white clover after I'd killed off the broad leafs. You'll have your fair share behind beans.

Stear clear of the endophyte free fescue, either use KY31 or novel endophyte stuff.

 

[Tim/South]

I drilled MaxQ endophyte friendly fescue on some new ground the fall before last. It is pricy but is a very hardy grass with no harmful endophyte. Also drilled Durana clover at the same time. It has also done well.
I drilled Tifton9 Bahia into the fescue and clover last summer to add a warm season grass. The Bahia was spotty last year. I hope it comes on this year. Bahia can take from 12 to 24 months to establish.

 

[Kell-inKY]

I'm going to roll the dice and try to plant everything this spring. However, I do not have a big enough tractor to pull the drill, they said I needed 65hp. So, was just going to disc and broadcast, but man o man it is muddy. I can't remember when it dries up enough to disc properly but it will be too late to plant grass I am sure. Huge crop of chickweed (I think, not sure, was soybeans last year) out there so I assume I will have to disc no matter what?

I could broadcast and pull the cultipacker or try the frost seeding I guess? Like I say though, those little weeds are out in force.

Last year I planted very late spring some annual ryegrass, and even then, it seemed pretty muddy, enough that the cultipacker clogged/rolled up constantly. Last year was pretty similar to this year in the amount of bad weather around here as far as moisture and freeze thaw making it a mess.

We do not want to go into debt to buy a larger tractor right now, and I don't really need one in the long run, I don't know anyone to borrow one from either, we just don't have any farming friends plus I hate borrowing. Any additional advice, like any other implement I might use to scratch it up without getting gummed up? Drag harrow do enough etc.? Not trying to run this into the ground, just learning all of this stuff, thanks, Kelly.

 

[Bigfoot]

I'm going to roll the dice and try to plant everything this spring. However, I do not have a big enough tractor to pull the drill, they said I needed 65hp. So, was just going to disc and broadcast, but man o man it is muddy. I can't remember when it dries up enough to disc properly but it will be too late to plant grass I am sure. Huge crop of chickweed (I think, not sure, was soybeans last year) out there so I assume I will have to disc no matter what?

I could broadcast and pull the cultipacker or try the frost seeding I guess? Like I say though, those little weeds are out in force.

Last year I planted very late spring some annual ryegrass, and even then, it seemed pretty muddy, enough that the cultipacker clogged/rolled up constantly. Last year was pretty similar to this year in the amount of bad weather around here as far as moisture and freeze thaw making it a mess.

We do not want to go into debt to buy a larger tractor right now, and I don't really need one in the long run, I don't know anyone to borrow one from either, we just don't have any farming friends plus I hate borrowing. Any additional advice, like any other implement I might use to scratch it up without getting gummed up? Drag harrow do enough etc.? Not trying to run this into the ground, just learning all of this stuff, thanks, Kelly.

You might have missed the boat on frost seeding. I may be wrong, but I don't see much more freezing and thawing in our area.

Your weed is probably bulbous butter cup--------------Shouldn't be a problem for 24d to knock it out.

I forget exactly where you are, but most of the counties around me have a drill a 45 horse tractor can pull. It wouldn't be the end of the world to disc it, and sow it though.

 

[dun]

If it's muddy you don;t want to be driving on it with anything heavier then a ATV. It will give you soil compaction and not accomplish much. When it drys, scratch it with a disc and broadcast then roll.

 

[ANAZAZI]

When it dries up enough for you to work it - that is the right time to do it, no such thing as too late timewise, there is too late if you wait until it is too dry.

 

[Kell-inKY]

yea, I'm back again...

I feel I am running out of time, just exactly how dry would it need to be to disk and spread seed? I am thinking I should disk one more time over the top after spreading to cover it. I usually run a chain link fence to cover the seed but I think it will be too wet for that. The counties drill requires 65 hp so I am out of luck on that one.

if it weren't for the crop of weeds I wouldn't bother disking until after I spread it but man it's really taking off after the soybeans were planted, don't remember it being that bad after corn? Is disking it once after spreading an option? I can post a pic of my lush green fields if needed, I don't know what is growing out there, something that looks like grass and some broadleafs, and of course onion grass.

It appears the cattle are eating the onion grass, I guess that is ok? I can't imagine there being anything else out there they are eating, they go out there all the time since I still have that section of fence down to allow access to the soybean stubble.

 

[littletom]

It finally dried out here in my part of ky. Yesterday we disked up 20 acres of bean stubble and sowed our pasture/hay mix rolling tomarrow. You still have sometime last year we did a tobacco field in late april was down there pulling soil test last week awesome stand and it was really dry here last summer till august. One thing to remember in however you work out sewing it if you don't get it smooth you will be dealing with those rough spots for a long time. If you have a disk, work it up but very lightly disk it. Don't get the seed real deep. We have one smaller disk with a pipe drag that levels pretty well. We disk up a good seed bed, and then pull cultimulcher over it. It is for sure not to late yet. I wish you were close by so I could help you out.