Controlled Burn

[tex452]

There was a controlled burn in Bastrop county Texas yesterday with very dry conditions and high winds predicted.
It got out of control and hundreds of homes had to be evacuated.
Bad decision by TPWD, county judge and whoever else was involved.
This should not have happened and whoever made these decisions should be held accountable, just like if it was a civilian that caused it.
There would be jail time and hefty fines.
Prayers that everyone stay's safe.

 

[kenny thomas]

Wasn't there a big fire there just a few years ago?

 

[tex452]

Yes
Same area.

 

[Rafter S]

Wasn't there a big fire there just a few years ago?

I think that was in 2011, which was one of the driest summers on record in Texas. We had one near me that summer also that apparently started by someone barbecuing on Father's Day. Some of the firefighters told me that at times it got up in the top of the pine trees and was jumping from one to the other without ever touching the ground. About all they could do was watch it until the forest service got there with aircraft and could dump water on it.

 

[greybeard]

I think that was in 2011, which was one of the driest summers on record in Texas. We had one near me that summer also that apparently started by someone barbecuing on Father's Day. Some of the firefighters told me that at times it got up in the top of the pine trees and was jumping from one to the other without ever touching the ground. About all they could do was watch it until the forest service got there with aircraft and could dump water on it.

yes, 2011. The Bastrop complex fire. Caused by a power company contractor (Asplundh) not keeping a line cleared-they lost a lawsuit and the residents were awarded a pal;try $5 million of a fire that cast insurers $325 million and caused 4 deaths.



but there was another one there in 2015. The Bastrop hidden or rolling pines fire.

Bastrop is no stranger to wildfire. How does the current nearly 800-acre Rolling Pines fire compare?

How does the current Rolling Pines wildfire near Bastrop compare to other large fires in the area, like the 2011 Bastrop County Complex fire? We took a look.

www.statesman.com

It was caused by sparks from a bush hog or from a bush hog fire from overheated bearing in the gearbox with the fire burning on grassland for approx 1 hour before fire fighting assets were brought in.

Lueke ranch

 

[Brute 23]

I know we all wish to live in this perfectly safe, nothing ever goes wrong, world but that is just not reality. In a lot of cases its about chosing the least risk, but there is always some risk.

It's easy to dwell on the fact that the fire got out of the controlled area but that is always the known risk. The positive is every one from first responders, to the forest service, and the citizens that evacuated all did their part and no one was hurt. There are contingency plans put in place for when this happens that every one knows. It was a huge success on that end.

The alternative to not doing these controlled burns is these fires start by power lines, bush hogging, lightning, car wrecks, etc... at random... when people are not as prepared... and the conditions could be even worse. In the case of the first two Bastop fires or the fires in California the damage was exponentially worse in all those alternative scenarios.

 

[greybeard]

The alternative to not doing these controlled burns is these fires start by power lines, bush hogging, lightning, car wrecks, etc when people are not as prepared. In the case of the first two Bastop fires or the fires in California the damage was exponentially worse.

Yep, that's the irony.
Damage is always more costly than prevention.

I would do prescribed burns here if possible or necessary but neither are. Wildfire was one of my major concerns when I decided to clearcut 90+ % of my property in 2007.
Brush abatement began shortly afterwards, thru herbicide.

 

[Brute 23]

Grass is much easier to burn. It's the trees and logs and things that produce embers that get you.

 

[greybeard]

I have plenty of those around me.

In 1990s-early 2007, that boot shaped part looked just like all the surrounding area.


I did all my burning at one time. Each number is a burnpile.
**** a bunch of trees.


My wife even got in on the fun. (The trees in the background, belong to You,The People, and you won't keep your sheit trimmed back or cleared off.



2 years later.. it was paying off.

 

[tex452]

I know we all wish to live in this perfectly safe, nothing ever goes wrong, world but that is just not reality. In a lot of cases its about chosing the least risk, but there is always some risk.

It's easy to dwell on the fact that the fire got out of the controlled area but that is always the known risk. The positive is every one from first responders, to the forest service, and the citizens that evacuated all did their part and no one was hurt. There are contingency plans put in place for when this happens that every one knows. It was a huge success on that end.

The alternative to not doing these controlled burns is these fires start by power lines, bush hogging, lightning, car wrecks, etc... at random... when people are not as prepared... and the conditions could be even worse. In the case of the first two Bastop fires or the fires in California the damage was exponentially worse in all those alternative scenarios.

Yes accidents do happen, but sometimes decisions have to be made.
I'm doing a job now that requires a lot of brush burning. I have firewalls built around all my brush piles but I do not burn on windy days.
We had some piles burning for several days and were smoldering, we had a norther blow in and a spark flew about 100 yards and started a dead tree on fire, we put it out with no problem but if left it could have been a lot worse.
I still have a lot to burn but had to stop because of dry windy conditions.
I check the forecast for several days ahead before I start burning again.

 

[Mrcopier]

16 fires of that size at once. Wow

 

[Walking W]

There was a controlled burn in Bastrop county Texas yesterday with very dry conditions and high winds predicted.
It got out of control and hundreds of homes had to be evacuated.
Bad decision by TPWD, county judge and whoever else was involved.
This should not have happened and whoever made these decisions should be held accountable, just like if it was a civilian that caused it.
There would be jail time and hefty fines.
Prayers that everyone stay's safe.

We have a burn ban here in Wise County. I don't see how a controlled burn could ever be pushed through.
W used to live in Los Alamos, NM. After we left, there was a controlled burn that got out of control. Many people I knew lost their homes and the entire town was transformed by the fire.

 

[Dave]

I have acres of sage brush that is 6 inches on the stump and 8 feet tall. Lots of juniper too. A good fire would help this place. But I am also bordered by the BLM. I am not about to light a fire. I don't want to end up like the Hammonds.

 

[Brute 23]

Yes accidents do happen, but sometimes decisions have to be made.
I'm doing a job now that requires a lot of brush burning. I have firewalls built around all my brush piles but I do not burn on windy days.
We had some piles burning for several days and were smoldering, we had a norther blow in and a spark flew about 100 yards and started a dead tree on fire, we put it out with no problem but if left it could have been a lot worse.
I still have a lot to burn but had to stop because of dry windy conditions.
I check the forecast for several days ahead before I start burning again.

I don't know what the weather conditions we or were predicted that day but there are some common misconception with controlled burns.

One is, you can burn with no wind. You have to have wind to do a burn.

Two, your typical winter burn ban doesn't apply to controlled burns. If it's a real bad drought, yes, they will shut them down. A lot of counties in act a burn ban after the first freeze no matter the conditions.

It's always easy to arm chair quarterback it and saying was not a good idea after the fact.

Yes, embers can travel a long ways. We had embers from burns on the islands across the ICW make it to the mainland and start lighting pastures.

My story about the worse burn I was ever on that got out of control was completely out of our control. We had watched the weather all week and even for a couple hours that morning. Most of the time conditions get good until 10 or 11 am to actually start. Any ways, we started lighting the back burn. We always do a little bit and watch it just to be sure. That's your last chance to kill it if you don't like what is going on with the fire.

They take off on a strip that's probably a mile or so. We wanted a couple hundred feet of good black for the back burn.

All the sudden the winds shift and starts rolling part of the back burn in to a head fire. Not a big deal but we continue with a back burn to make sure we are ahead of it.

The killer was the humidity dropped big time and the wind started shifting. It started throwing embers several hundred feet and they were lighting. We started trying to put fires put that were outside the burn area but the embers were hitting our shirts and and burning holes.

None of that was predicted in the weather forecast.

We had to get fire department out to fight the fires around us while we attempted to controll the main burn, still.

These guys always say... if you haven't had a fire get away from you it's because you haven't burned enough.

We have people do dumb stuff here also though. Couple years ago people had fire get outside the burn area. The fire department put it out and no one monitored it after. The next day it relite and turned in to a large fire. That was 100% preventable and a huge no-no. When our fire got out we had a watch for 48hrs straight and we put fire guards around that area also.

 

[greybeard]

Humidity is just as, if not more important than wind. High humidity is what puts the airborne embers out, especially at night. If the humidity didn't extinguish them in the air, it does when the embers hit the dew covered ground.

I have had National Forest Service burn embers from 5 miles away fall in my yard, still smoking.

(if ya have only ever seen a daytime burn, a night fire will scare you. You can then see just how many embers/sparks are going up.)

 

[Brute 23]

You are right. I'm more scared of low humidity than wind. With enough humidity it's hard to burn the driest of fuel. With low humidity almost any thing will light.

I've been part of some burns with pretty stout winds. In simple terms I tell people if you can fish it.. you can burn it.

What amazes me is the science behind it. These guys that are smarter than me can look at all the conditions and say exactly when things will burn the best.

When that bad fire got out on us and we monitored it the next day. They guy in charge told us that morning exactly what time we would start see some flare ups in areas getting sun and wind. He told us exactly when would be the most active time and exactly when it would taper off. He was pretty much dead on all day long.

The science and technology is all there for these burns. At the end of the day mother nature still has the final say though and you have to play the cards you are dealt.

 

[Dave]

Wild fires in Chelan in 2015 and Okanogan in 2020 jumped the Columbia River. That is a pretty good size creek.

 

[Silver]

Humidity is just as, if not more important than wind. High humidity is what puts the airborne embers out, especially at night. If the humidity didn't extinguish them in the air, it does when the embers hit the dew covered ground.

I have had National Forest Service burn embers from 5 miles away fall in my yard, still smoking.

(if ya have only ever seen a daytime burn, a night fire will scare you. You can then see just how many embers/sparks are going up.)

There's nothing like fighting forest fire at night with dozers. You go hell bent for election to get around it and you'll never forget the excitement or the visual.

 

[greybeard]

Someone mentioned "fire went underground". I had never encountered that until the day we burned the piles you see in the picture. As you can see, there is not a whole lot on the surface to support a ground fire. Just some new growth after clearing, pushing and piling. About an hour after we had light the first piles, my wife came and told me there was a fencepost on an old fencline flaming away. I found it odd, as it about 200' from the nearest pile. Anyway, I went over with a backpack sprayer and put the fire out but 30 minutes later, it was burning again, and so was the next post down the fence and smoke was coming out of the ground between the posts. The whole fenceline ended up burning underground, fueled by what I would imagine peat is like. Decayed/decaying pine needles under the ground. Since the fence was no good anyway, I just let it burn all night and the next morning, there was a long trench about a foot deep under the fence where all that had burned out. I spent the day and the following night out there watching it.
Next morning most of them had burned down pretty good. It took a couple weeks tho, of smoldering, then raking them out and repiling to get em done completely. Before it was over, I got real good at getting them to burn completely.



I didn't just set the piiles to burning without advice or knowledge of the Forest Service or local VFD. I had called both about a week ahead and the NFS came out, looked everything over and said I was good to go but they would drop a dozer off nearby just in case and for me to call them again the morning I was going to light it up. They gave me the go ahead that morning but told me humidity was high enough they decided not to bring the dozer but they always had a standby crew ready anyway. They had at that time, a facility about 8 miles away so it wouldn't take them long to get here. Not for me, since I really didn't have anything to 'save' at the time, but to keep it out of the nat forest. I had also notified the sheriff dept and the 911 lady in case someone called my fires in as a wildfire. Lit them on a Friday morning.
Looking back, it was fun times.
I was in good physical shape back then, not afraid of tackling anything, just full speed ahead.
Caption on this picture said "4pm Saturday evening. I had not slept since 6am Friday morning"

Dang, 14 years and a lot of water under the bridge since then but I just realized, I still have the same phone, the same truck and the same hat. (IDON'T tho, still have that big growth on my back. Had it surgically removed in 2016. Weighed 7 1/2 lbs. non-cancerous cyst)

 

[kenny thomas]

There's nothing like fighting forest fire at night with dozers. You go hell bent for election to get around it and you'll never forget the excitement or the visual.

Just retired after 48 years of doing just that. Loved it until recently and the BS was getting to be too much.