Considering going cow-calf

[CoatsworthFarms]

For years my family have bought cattle, usually 4-6 at a time. They are raised to finish and slaughtered to eat and to sell to friends. If you're in it just to eat your own beef it's fine, but it doesn't make any money because everything you get from the sale of the beef is lost to buy cattle for the next cycle.

Taking care of the cattle has been left to me over the last couple years and I'd like to try to make a little extra money from it.

I want to get about 6 heifers to start, but past that I have a million questions. Can I breed the same bull to the heifers every year or should I switch him up to get better results? And how do you go about exposing the bull to the heifer? Just run a heifer into his pen for awhile? How long? Will she get hurt?

This thread is going to go on for awhile, buckle up people. I'm a certified newbie.

 

[ANAZAZI]

:welcome: to Cattle Today! Now; read up on the subject right here on the boards, because if you believe that you can not make money selling beef private treaty, you sell too cheap or buy too expensive. And starting cow calf you need some experience and start with some bred cows, not heifers.

 

[thendrix]

I second starting with bred cows. That way you don't have the cost of buying a bull, you don't have to feed him, and some are like teenage boys in that they like to get into things and tear things up. The risk you run is sometimes you don't know what the cow is bred to, especially from the sale barn. Now to answer your question, yes you can rebreed your cows with the same bull if it is a bull you are happy with. You just have to be sure to get rid of his offspring unless you want some SCREWED UP cows.

We also run a small cow/calf operation and we let the bull roam free with the cows. He knows what to do and when the cows go into heat, he will do it.

As far as the cows getting hurt, that depends on the cow and bull breeds. Small bodied bulls with large bodied cows you are probably alright and will more then likely have less calving problems. The other way around you may be in for some issues. This is an exageration but think of it as miniature poodles and bull mastiffs. One way your cows are fairly safe from injury, unless you have an aggressive poodle. Put the mastiff on top and the poodle will never be the same

 

[angus9259]

I second starting with bred cows.

ME TOO

You just have to be sure to get rid of his offspring unless you want some SCREWED UP cows.

NOT ALWAYS. IN FACT, THEY'LL PROBABLY/STATISTICALLY BE OK. BUT YOU CERTAINLY HAVE A GREATER CHANCE OF SEEING SOME GENETIC ABNORMALITIES

We also run a small cow/calf operation and we let the bull roam free with the cows. He knows what to do and when the cows go into heat, he will do it.

NOT ALWAYS. THE BULL SHOULD BE SEMEN TESTED AND MONITORED TO MAKE SURE THINGS ARE WORKING. THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS THAT LET THEIR BULL RUN FREE AND EVERYTHING GOES FINE. THERE ARE ALSO TONS OF STORIES ON THESE BOARDS WHERE COWS AREN'T GETTING BRED FOR VARIOUS REASONS. THE BULL SHOULD GO THROUGH A BREEDING SOUNDNESS EXAM ANNUALLY AND, POSSIBLY BE "PROVEN". USUALLY I RECOMMEND A VIRGIN BULL TO PREVENT THE TRANSMISSION OF DISEASE, BUT YOUR COWS WILL ALSO BE AN UNKNOWN IN YOUR SITUATION SO I'M NOT SURE IT MATTERS.

As far as the cows getting hurt, that depends on the cow and bull breeds. Small bodied bulls with large bodied cows you are probably alright and will more then likely have less calving problems. The other way around you may be in for some issues.

NOT ALWAYS. A BULL'S MATURE FRAME SCORE DOESN'T PREDICT CALVING EASE AND THE COW PLAYS AT LEAST AS BIG A ROLE. THERE ARE ALSO EQUAL NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS OF BULLS THAT CAN'T REACH AS THERE ARE COWS BEING HURT BY BULLS - GETTING BACK TO THE PART ABOUT THE BULL GETTING THE JOB DONE.

This is an exageration but think of it as miniature poodles and bull mastiffs. One way your cows are fairly safe from injury, unless you have an aggressive poodle. Put the mastiff on top and the poodle will never be the same

TO MY KNOWLEDGE, IT DOESN'T REALLY WORK THAT WAY WITH CATTLE. IN FACT, I'VE HEARD TELL THAT THE LARGER BULL CAN ACTUALLY BE EASIER ON THE COW AS IT DOESN'T HAVE TO WORK SO HARD TO GET THE JOB DONE AND, AS I SAID, THE SIZE OF A MATURE BULL DOESN'T PREDICT CALVING EASE

AS YOU CAN SEE - THERE ARE A WIDE VARIETY OF OPINIONS OUT THERE ON WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO - CERTAINLY NOT SAYING I'M RIGHT EITHER. GOOD LUCK SORTING THROUGH IT ALL.

 

[Ouachita]

I second starting with bred cows. That way you don't have the cost of buying a bull, you don't have to feed him, and some are like teenage boys in that they like to get into things and tear things up. The risk you run is sometimes you don't know what the cow is bred to, especially from the sale barn. Now to answer your question, yes you can rebreed your cows with the same bull if it is a bull you are happy with. You just have to be sure to get rid of his offspring unless you want some SCREWED UP cows.

We also run a small cow/calf operation and we let the bull roam free with the cows. He knows what to do and when the cows go into heat, he will do it.

As far as the cows getting hurt, that depends on the cow and bull breeds. Small bodied bulls with large bodied cows you are probably alright and will more then likely have less calving problems. The other way around you may be in for some issues. This is an exageration but think of it as miniature poodles and bull mastiffs. One way your cows are fairly safe from injury, unless you have an aggressive poodle. Put the mastiff on top and the poodle will never be the same

Now thats a heck of mental picture to carry around all day :lol:

 

[angus9259]

Also, it's a really tough time to get in and plan on making money. Heifer/bred cow prices are so high right now that it'll take longer to recoup. That said, I also realize that feed calves are high which obviously will help - but that's always speculative - especially at the prices were these feeders are now and the fact that you'll be a year from selling anything. Personally, I prefer the "buy high, sell low" approach as it's worked for me for years and I've become quite proficient at it. However, I don't recommend it if the goal is making money.

 

[ohiosteve]

Another breeding option if you have the set up to easily catch the heifers is to synchronize them all and breed A.I. Then you can control the genetics and when they calve. I would recommend late spring but some prefer a fall calving. Thats up to you.

 

[thendrix]

Glad you liked it. I came with that one on my own. Copyright of Ricky Bobby Inc. :lol:

Coatsworth: As said earlier, what works for some may not work for others. All the bulls that we have had have been bought from farmers that we knew and we knew the bulls were proven so we never worried with testing them. This is one of those threads where you ask 10 people and get 8 different answers then pick through and find what works for your operation. Which ever route you take you will undoubtedly be asking yourself at some point "what the he[[ made me ever want to raise cattle"

 

[Isomade]

:welcome:

 

[IluvABbeef]

I want to get about 6 heifers to start, but past that I have a million questions. Can I breed the same bull to the heifers every year or should I switch him up to get better results? And how do you go about exposing the bull to the heifer? Just run a heifer into his pen for awhile? How long? Will she get hurt?

This thread is going to go on for awhile, buckle up people. I'm a certified newbie.

:welcome: You didn't specify location or how large your land-base is for holding a cattle herd, so that might be a good way to help us help you out here.

The thing you have to remember with a cow-calf operation is that you have to raise half the number of animals that you have raised with feeder/stockers. If your land can only hold 6 steers, then you can only raise 3 cow-calf pairs. I would suggest to avoid getting unproven females (or heifers) as a first-timer at this, you're best bet is to buy 3-in-1's (bred cows with calf at side) so that calving, weaning and breeding is not only easier on them, but also on you as well. There are numerous threads on this forum about different stories many producers have on here about pain-in-the-neck heifers at calving time, and it would do you well to read them.

You could breed the same bull to these heifers or cows if you are willing to sell all offspring and not keep any replacement stock. For a little herd like yours, I would avoid getting a bull because he is just an extra mouth to feed and a bigger liability to have since he will only be spending 2 months out of 12 to try to get your three cows bred. Find a reputable AI technician to get the job done for you. AI techs don't destroy fences to escape in search of some other neighbor's cows that are in heat, take extra feed to keep, have the potential to turn on you without warning, etc. Also, this allows you to use different semen each breeding season if you are not pleased with last year's results.

If you are intent on keeping a bull, you can keep him for as long as you need him, or as long as he stays productive. If you want to keep replacements, then it's best to sell him and get another bull. And yes, you just have to let him stay in the same corral with the cows/heifers for a couple of months (preferably 45 to 60 days). Some folks on here like year-round breeding or prefer to keep the bull in with the cows for as long as deemed necessary, pulling him out just when calving season starts. Whatever you decide to do with him is all up to you, if you do decide to naturally-breed your cows and not artificially inseminate them.

A bull can only hurt a heifer or cow one of two ways: one, he's too large and heavy for her to be able to support him on her hindquarters, and two, he tends to throw large calves (which, as someone else mentioned, is also in part the heifer/cow's fault as well, because half the genetics come from the dam and the other half from the sire). Cows tend to be a bit more tolerant of large herd bulls than heifers are, so it's the heifers you need to be careful with if you intend on purchasing heifers instead of cows.

 

[ANAZAZI]

AI techs don't destroy fences to escape in search of some other neighbor's cows that are in heat, take extra feed to keep, have the potential to turn on you without warning, etc.

I can go as far as to say the risks are smaller; however there are no guarantees, easier on the fences most of the time, and eat less feed, but even if unlikely, AI techs can turn on you under extreme conditions! :banana: :banana:

 

[CoatsworthFarms]

Thanks for all the responses. Interesting I never considered cow-calf pairs before.
I took a quick lookaround and it looks like I can get a pair for somewhere between $700-900, although I'm not sure I'm reading it properly. Seems pretty cheap.
So if I was to get a pair I assume I'd keep the cow around until the calf was weaned and could then slaughter the cow? Never done this before, is this possible, does the beef taste just as good as a finished steer/heifer?
Because I don't have my own trailer and like to keep using my neighbours at a minimum I would hold the calf and finish it. Sounds like a long time to feed for, but I don't pay much at all for feed. Dad grows a lot of corn and there's always a field of clover around every summer.

Based on my numbers it looks like I can net about $1400 on a cow-calf pair, while buying steers at 700 lbs. and finishing them nets $225.

 

[CoatsworthFarms]

My apologies as I suspected I was wrong about the price.
Latest prices in my area show cow/calf pairs selling for about $1600 on average.
I usually buy from a local guy who raises Simmental-Angus crosses.

 

[HomePlaceAngus]

A lot of good advise here, don't know how much more I can add. Starting out I deffently would go AI unless I couldn't find a good tech. Down the road you will probably want to have your own bull for clean up but I would still AI. The remark that was made about not making money raising beef to sell was probably because today so many breeders including cow/calf operations are going into "grass fed beef. It seem everyone around here is joining the fad. Why? because there is money in it !!!! I too, would recommend buying bred cows or heifers that have a low birth weight and bred to a low birth weight bull. The great buy is usually when you buy a 3 in 1 with a heifer calf at side. You all ready have 2 females and if your lucky maybe 3. As long as you are buying right, how can you go wrong buying 3 in 1s? When you are new just pay very close attention to the matting that you do. Having a good mentor that you trust is a must !!!!! If you don't pay a lot of attention and know what you are doing matching up the EPDs of the female and the EPD of the Sire, you and waisting you time and money. Of course the same thing is true if you are using your own bull. Well, :welcome: . There is a lot of enjoyment to seeing the results of your matting/breeding program.

 

[angus9259]

Starting out I deffently would go AI unless I couldn't find a good tech. Down the road you will probably want to have your own bull for clean up but I would still AI.

I wouldn't AI - even with a tech. I've just never seen 100% hit rate (I know many claim it exists, I just haven't seen it) so FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE ONLY, you're still gonna need a bull to clean up or you're gonna have open cows and the AI tech on call and coming back. If an AI tech could come, cycle everyone, and get them settled, my vote MIGHT be different except for the cost. If the goal is making money, it's hard to justify the cost of semen, tech, and all the synch hormones. There are easy doing bulls out there that won't destroy everything (In MY OPINION).

So, once again, you're left with many different opinions and no direct path!! Welcome to cattle!! :bang:

 

[IluvABbeef]

Ditto on what Angus9259 said. Whatever you choose to do in your operation with your cattle is totally up to you. Just make sure that the decisions you do make are the right ones for the right reasons, like for more money in your pocket, for a healthier herd, etc.

So if I was to get a pair I assume I'd keep the cow around until the calf was weaned and could then slaughter the cow? Never done this before, is this possible, does the beef taste just as good as a finished steer/heifer?

It's not the cow you would slaughter, but the calf itself. You would keep the cow to produce more calves to sell or butcher for your own freezer. To me it's counter productive if you buy a cow, keep the calf then turn around and slaughter the cow. The cow's job is to produce calves for you to sell/eat. The way it works is that yes you wean the calf, but you put the calf on a forage-based ration for 6 to 10 months, then start finishing it on either really good quality grass (which is what grass-fed operations are pretty much about), or put him on grass/hay with a little grain to add some marbling.

Or, you could just simply sell the calf as a weanling or short-yearling (where the calf is around 10 months of age). If you have a few cows, then you have a few calves to sell, and don't have to buy any calves again because you're just waiting for the cows to produce more calves.

Because I don't have my own trailer and like to keep using my neighbours at a minimum I would hold the calf and finish it. Sounds like a long time to feed for, but I don't pay much at all for feed. Dad grows a lot of corn and there's always a field of clover around every summer.

I agree it does take a while (well over 2 years, if going from conception to plate) to hold a calf to finish it. But really, how long does it take to eat up that finished steer? (Thinking out loud here...) If you are selling meat directly and if you keep doing that instead of going the auction route (which can lead to losses if you sell when the market is crappy), you could and will make some money. You could, to meet this little direct market, calve your cows out on different times of the year. But if you don't want to go to all that fun and labour, just having your few cows breed and calve in the same interval means you have more beef to sell at one time. Like, you have three calves to finish instead of one and three whole beefs to sell to your customers. Sure it's half of what you would sell if you did the background/finish route like you've done in the past, but at least you don't have to be buying another few head again every year: you just wait for your cows to spit up some more calves. But again, what you decide to do is your choice.

Based on my numbers it looks like I can net about $1400 on a cow-calf pair, while buying steers at 700 lbs. and finishing them nets $225.