Connealy Black Granite

[Air gator]

Has anyone had any first-hand experience with Connealy Black Granite calves?
Are there any daughters calving yet? Thanks for your help.

 

[Brand]

I bought a week old bull calf out of Granite on a commercial angus cow. He is quite good.

 

[Son of Butch]

Why was a week old bull calf for sale?
OR
Did you buy a cow/calf pair?

 

[Brand]

I bought the pair for 4500

 

[Katpau]

I have a 6 month old heifer that was born to a heifer in December. I bought the heifer bred, and I know the breeders had seen Granite and were really high on him. They said that he was one of the best bulls they have seen phenotypically. They bred quite a few more cows to him again this year. They are seedstock producers, and calf over 100 cows each year. He is also a rep. for both Genex and Select Sires, so he sees a lot of bulls. They have an interesting way of selecting replacements. They pick out all of the ones they want to keep as replacements and then cull the rest. This results in there being more replacements than they need. They put a price on all of their keepers and let the buyers pick what they want. When they have sold as many as they want, the rest are kept as their replacements.

I can't tell you much about her yet. So far there is nothing I don't like, but she is still young. The rest of my cows calve in late February through March, so it is hard to compare her to them. She is quite a bit larger of course. The only other calf of comparable in age is a bull calf by Connealy Namesake, who was born to another heifer purchased at the same place. She is going to have quite a bit more frame than him, but that is not surprising since her Mom is a quite a bit taller than the other. She weighed 78 pounds at birth which adjusted to 84.7 pounds when adjustments were made for the age of her Dam. That worked out to 102% of the average heifer birth weight, but only 95.7% of the average of all calves born. There were 20 heifers and 18 bulls in that group of calves. This year my bull calves averaged 94.9 pounds and heifers 82.8 pounds. I don't know why, but this year the bulls outweighed the heifers by a lot. Usually there is only a few pounds difference. One year the heifers even out weighed the bulls.

I suspect that once more data is available on Granite, that his Birth weight EPD will rise. I went through the records of 105 births that included 8 Granite heifers and 5 bulls. Those heifers averaged 107% of the average heifer birth weight and the bull averaged 104% on natural births and 101% on two ET births. His sire Connealy Consensus 7229 started out with similar BW numbers and has since risen to +2.2 and his calving ease EPD dropped to a +4. There were 9 heifers and 10 bulls by Consensus in this same group and they ratio'd at 102 and 104 respectively. As a comparison, the well proven calving ease bull Connealy Confidence 0100 had 12 heifers and 8 bull calves in this group. Their birth weight ratios were 96% and 93%.

 

[3waycross]

Totally off subject but I believe that adjusted birth weights are a load of crap. They weigh what they weigh. I have 10 year old 1700lb cows that have 78 lb calves..

adjust that.

 

[Katpau]

Birth Weights are adjusted for the age of the cow. The adjustment for a 10 year old cows is 0, so the weight when comparing it to another calf would still be 78 pounds. I have kept records of all of the birth weights on a herd of between 40 and 50 cows for about 10 years now, so I have close to 500 actual birth weights on mostly Angus cows of all ages. I use an accurate scale and weights are never based on a tape or an estimate. I have found it to be true that my 2 year old heifers will have calves that are considerably lighter than those same heifers will give birth to when they are five year olds. AAA uses an adjustment factor of 6.7 pounds on a heifer less than 2 years 3 months old. The adjustment table has very little BW weight adjustment by the time a cow is over 3 years 3 months. By the time the cow is 5 the adjustment is only .7 pounds and it remains at 0 pounds adjusted until the cow is 11. An older cow will be adjusted by 1 pound. My own numbers seem to pretty much match the numbers used by the American Angus Assn, so I do believe it. The eight heifers I calved out this year had actual birth weights that ranged from 68 to 78 pounds and averaged 73.4 pounds. My herd average was 88.5 pounds, which is more than a 6.7 pound difference, but I have been attempting to bring my birth weights down some through selection of replacements. If the past is any indication, I expect this same group of heifers will end up giving birth to calves that weigh about 80 pounds by the time they are all 5.

I have always loved gathering and analyzing data. I am rather obsessive compulsive about it. I have a bit of trouble understanding people and emotions, but numbers I love. Sorry if it bores or overwhelms others.

 

[Air gator]

Thank you, Katpau. Good luck with your calves.
I was wondering how Connealy Consensus 7229 took a hit on his CEM.
I think he was a +7 or +8 when he was sold but now is +3.
That's below breed average and makes me wonder about Black Granite's CEM EPD.
Thanks again.

 

[Katpau]

I was actually referring to CED, which is an estimate of the calving ease of his own direct offspring. CEM is the ease with which his daughters give birth. That is a very important number if you plan to keep daughters. I have never used 7229 and had not noticed his CEM had dropped. I see his CED is +4 today and his CEM is only a +3. and has an 81% accuracy. Apparently the data reported indicated that more of his heifer daughters required some assistance calving. The breed average CEM is between +8 and +9.

I consider CEM much more important than CED when using a bull in hopes of getting replacements. A CED of +4 should be perfectly fine to use on cows and even most heifers. Most of us keep an eye on the heifers anyway. It is usually necessary to give up a little BW in order to get good growth and most older cows can handle more size and birth weight, so they don't need an extreme calving ease bull. The CEM of +3 tells me I might have more than average amounts of dystocia on his daughters. Why bring in that trouble?

Black Granites CEM is +13 right now with a 19% accuracy. It is based on his two genetic profiles, and his parents numbers. I hope the numbers are right, because in a couple of years I plan to be calving out my own Black Granite daughter.

 

[T & B farms]

Let's bring this back to the top. Anyone have any milking daughters? Does he improve udders? How is their mature size?

 

[Dirt Farmer]

I'm curious about feet as well. I'm not sure if he is on the AAA site for feet but it doesn't tell if they're screw toed or splayed ect anyway.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I'm using Bar R Jet Black 5063 on some heifers this season. He is a Black Granite son. His AAA # is 18389838. I think his numbers look more impressive than his sire, but I do love Connealy sires, the progeny we have from Capitalist is some of the best we have had. Just bred a Capitalist daughter to SAV President, but I digress. You see Black Granite sons show up in sales around here often. Here is Jet Black, he looks built like the proverbial brick sh.....house.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I'm curious about feet as well. I'm not sure if he is on the AAA site for feet but it doesn't tell if they're screw toed or splayed ect anyway.

I think Hoover Dam should be your go-to bull for foot quality. Also, SAV President.

 

[Dirt Farmer]

Hoover Dam is definitely on the short list. We have a slight issue with hooves curled in and shallow angles/short heels. I'm sure someone has had calves that can give firsthand experience.

 

[NEFarmwife]

I'm using Bar R Jet Black 5063 on some heifers this season. He is a Black Granite son. His AAA # is 18389838. I think his numbers look more impressive than his sire, but I do love Connealy sires, the progeny we have from Capitalist is some of the best we have had. Just bred a Capitalist daughter to SAV President, but I digress. You see Black Granite sons show up in sales around here often. Here is Jet Black, he looks built like the proverbial brick sh.....house.

We flushed to Bar R Jet Black. We've used black granite for a few years and have always been pleased with him. I like his sons #s.

We flushed her late into the year so we won't use embryos until spring but I'm excited. We got 22 embryos from that flush, best flush to date!

 

[Katpau]

My one and only Black Granite daughter failed to breed. I did something I always recommend against with her. She did not settle as a heifer and I kept her and tried again. I really wanted to get a calf out of her, so I broke my own rule and it came back to bite me. She did not breed as a 2 year old either. The Vet made the comment that her uterus felt thick and abnormal when he preg checked. I see Black granite has a heifer pregnancy EPD in the bottom 75% with a 73% accuracy, so I guess I wasn't alone in having poor results.

He is included in the footscore research list put out by AAA. He does not score bad for clawset although he is probably not an improver for that trait. He scores pretty bad on angle however.

According to American Angus, Benfield Substance 8506 is probably one of the best bulls available today to improve both clawset and Angle.

 

[T & B farms]

I've been eyeing black granite because of his positive $en. Most guys don't pay any attention to that, but I'm trying to improve the fleshing ability and lower my feed cost. I said I wouldn't do it, but I ordered some more 7229 to use on my females that don't have any of him in the pedigree. I would like to stay connealy if possible. What bull would do this? Im trying to maintain frame. Don't want them bigger or smaller.

 

[LCBulls]

We only have one daughter of Black Granite. We bought her from SAV. She is out of SAV Madame Pride 5290. Daughter of 0075. She has had one calf so far, but took more tries to AI than most of our other heifers. Her first calf by Charlo was average. She is starting to look a little better flesh wise. I think it has taken her a bit to adjust to our environment. We calve at 7000' in elevation with a few feet of snow in the winter.( over 120" snowfall annually)
She did breed back on time to President.
Based on the foot score EPD, 7229 can throw some feet issues, hopefully Black Granite will be better.
If looking for a Son of 7229, I'd go with Mill Bar Hickok.
I'd try Jet Black also, not sure if he's available right now though.

 

[NEFarmwife]

We only have one daughter of Black Granite. We bought her from SAV. She is out of SAV Madame Pride 5290. Daughter of 0075. She has had one calf so far, but took more tries to AI than most of our other heifers. Her first calf by Charlo was average. She is starting to look a little better flesh wise. I think it has taken her a bit to adjust to our environment. We calve at 7000' in elevation with a few feet of snow in the winter.( over 120" snowfall annually)
She did breed back on time to President.
Based on the foot score EPD, 7229 can throw some feet issues, hopefully Black Granite will be better.
If looking for a Son of 7229, I'd go with Mill Bar Hickok.
I'd try Jet Black also, not sure if he's available right now though.

Bar R Jet Black isn't available. ORIgen says "limited supply" and to call. I reached out to Friendship Farms and he said his demand is high but he's still working. We have a few straws left.

Hickok is one we bought straws of also. We tried to breed our donor to him to calve but she came back into heat. Really surprised. She's the girl that flushes real well. Embryologist is setting her up to flush again.

 

[NEFarmwife]

I'll have to see if we've kept any black granite for replacements.

I know we've bred him heavy for other locals and they've all been happy with his daughters.