Commercial Fertilize, Lime, or Chicken Litter???

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Bigfoot":2izjw7oy said:
Does broiler litter have the ability to lower PH? The gentleman that has broiler litter here, is as high on it, as chemical fertilizer. one of his selling points is that 4 tons of it, is equal to one ton of lime.

I was always under the impression that 4 tons of broiler litter would only be equal to about 200/lbs of lime.
 
Dave":3w1w1p18 said:
Any nitrogen fertilizer either commercial or manure drives down your pH. The ammionum (NH4) is converted by the mircos in the soil into nitrate (NO3) which is the form of nitrogen the plants take up. That process leaves behind those 4 molecules of hydrogen in the soil. And hydrogen is what makes an acid soil. Layer litter has enough calcium to counteract this and actually even very slowly raise the pH. The other forms of manure are pretty close to a wash depending on how much Calcium they contain.
Applying lime and a nitrogen fertilizer at the same time will pretty much guarantee a chemical reaction that will cause the nitrogen to volatize off into the atmosphere. Nitrogen is too expensive and hard enough to keep where you put it to add an additional way for it to leave. I would never apply lime and a nitrogen fertilizer on at the same time.


Isn't that exactly what you're doing when you apply poultry litter??
 
Just to give an update here. We went with the Commercial Fertilize. We got a window of dry weather for a couple of days and Commercial was the easiest for us to get. We only got one pasture and half another done before it rained again but that is better then nothing. I think my dad said that he put almost 250 per acre or something like that. I'm not sure I wasn't with him when he did it. When it dries up a little more (got a huge amount of rain last night so it may be a while) we are going to try and put out more and also try and get some Chicken Litter if we can find some.

The commercial did really well. Couldn't get in the low spots of the pastures so we got in the high spots really good and it got rained on the night we put it out so we should start seeing results soon. In y'alls experience how long does it take to see results?
 
Lime is more important than fertilizer if your soil PH is less than 5.8. Your dad probably wasted half of the fertilizer he put on. You will see results within a weeks time on the fertilizer. You need to take a soil sample so you know what the land needs. Maybe your dad will listen to you, if you know what your talking about.
 
Big Cheese":1t2ro6bs said:
Just to give an update here. We went with the Commercial Fertilize. We got a window of dry weather for a couple of days and Commercial was the easiest for us to get. We only got one pasture and half another done before it rained again but that is better then nothing. I think my dad said that he put almost 250 per acre or something like that. I'm not sure I wasn't with him when he did it. When it dries up a little more (got a huge amount of rain last night so it may be a while) we are going to try and put out more and also try and get some Chicken Litter if we can find some.

The commercial did really well. Couldn't get in the low spots of the pastures so we got in the high spots really good and it got rained on the night we put it out so we should start seeing results soon. In y'alls experience how long does it take to see results?
A little speculation on my part here cheese but it sounds like you had wet ground. (Couldn't get into low spots) and you got a heavy rain. If that's the case a lot of your fertilizer likely in those low places. Probably in standing water. You can get dangerous nitrates in those areas. And in that water Not trying to scare you. Just make you aware in case you have cattle in those pastures.
 
fenceman":ftz3yfv2 said:
Big Cheese":ftz3yfv2 said:
Just to give an update here. We went with the Commercial Fertilize. We got a window of dry weather for a couple of days and Commercial was the easiest for us to get. We only got one pasture and half another done before it rained again but that is better then nothing. I think my dad said that he put almost 250 per acre or something like that. I'm not sure I wasn't with him when he did it. When it dries up a little more (got a huge amount of rain last night so it may be a while) we are going to try and put out more and also try and get some Chicken Litter if we can find some.

The commercial did really well. Couldn't get in the low spots of the pastures so we got in the high spots really good and it got rained on the night we put it out so we should start seeing results soon. In y'alls experience how long does it take to see results?
A little speculation on my part here cheese but it sounds like you had wet ground. (Couldn't get into low spots) and you got a heavy rain. If that's the case a lot of your fertilizer likely in those low places. Probably in standing water. You can get dangerous nitrates in those areas. And in that water Not trying to scare you. Just make you aware in case you have cattle in those pastures.

There's wasn't any standing water just saturated ground the buggy would have been to heavy and probably sunk. There's not any cows on the pasture yet but there will be in a week or so. We rotate this herd every 5-7 days usually per paddock but we are just now getting back into rotation we got out of whack with all the rain.

But I will keep an eye on it and make sure nothing happens.
 
Dave":xa10mrqo said:
Any nitrogen fertilizer either commercial or manure drives down your pH. The ammionum (NH4) is converted by the mircos in the soil into nitrate (NO3) which is the form of nitrogen the plants take up. That process leaves behind those 4 molecules of hydrogen in the soil. And hydrogen is what makes an acid soil. Layer litter has enough calcium to counteract this and actually even very slowly raise the pH. The other forms of manure are pretty close to a wash depending on how much Calcium they contain.
Applying lime and a nitrogen fertilizer at the same time will pretty much guarantee a chemical reaction that will cause the nitrogen to volatize off into the atmosphere. Nitrogen is too expensive and hard enough to keep where you put it to add an additional way for it to leave. I would never apply lime and a nitrogen fertilizer on at the same time.

What is the minimum amount of time between applications you would suggest?
 
bulldurham":20uii18o said:
Dave":20uii18o said:
Any nitrogen fertilizer either commercial or manure drives down your pH. The ammionum (NH4) is converted by the mircos in the soil into nitrate (NO3) which is the form of nitrogen the plants take up. That process leaves behind those 4 molecules of hydrogen in the soil. And hydrogen is what makes an acid soil. Layer litter has enough calcium to counteract this and actually even very slowly raise the pH. The other forms of manure are pretty close to a wash depending on how much Calcium they contain.
Applying lime and a nitrogen fertilizer at the same time will pretty much guarantee a chemical reaction that will cause the nitrogen to volatize off into the atmosphere. Nitrogen is too expensive and hard enough to keep where you put it to add an additional way for it to leave. I would never apply lime and a nitrogen fertilizer on at the same time.

What is the minimum amount of time between applications you would suggest?

I always recommend lime in the fall and nitrogen fertilizer in the spring. Lime moves real slow in the soil so giving it the winter to move into the root zone is a good idea. And in my climate nitrogen in the fall is a waste of money.
 
TexasBred":20yvc629 said:
Dave":20yvc629 said:
Any nitrogen fertilizer either commercial or manure drives down your pH. The ammionum (NH4) is converted by the mircos in the soil into nitrate (NO3) which is the form of nitrogen the plants take up. That process leaves behind those 4 molecules of hydrogen in the soil. And hydrogen is what makes an acid soil. Layer litter has enough calcium to counteract this and actually even very slowly raise the pH. The other forms of manure are pretty close to a wash depending on how much Calcium they contain.
Applying lime and a nitrogen fertilizer at the same time will pretty much guarantee a chemical reaction that will cause the nitrogen to volatize off into the atmosphere. Nitrogen is too expensive and hard enough to keep where you put it to add an additional way for it to leave. I would never apply lime and a nitrogen fertilizer on at the same time.


Isn't that exactly what you're doing when you apply poultry litter??

Ever stand downwind of a field getting chicken manure? There is a little difference in lime and the calcium in chicken litter so I don't know if it is the same chemical reaction. I know I have smelled lovely mixture of dairy cow manure and lime. I would take your head off with the smell of all that ammonium leaving.
 
Dave":3w1ajt6g said:
TexasBred":3w1ajt6g said:
Ever stand downwind of a field getting chicken manure? There is a little difference in lime and the calcium in chicken litter so I don't know if it is the same chemical reaction. I know I have smelled lovely mixture of dairy cow manure and lime. I would take your head off with the smell of all that ammonium leaving.
Lime is nothing more than a simple name for calcium carbonate with a big of magnesium carbonate also present. Calcium is odorless. You'r just smelling good rich manure Dave, very high in nitrogen as most chicken are fed more protein than they need so it's passes through.
 
TexasBred":1h3cghri said:
Dave":1h3cghri said:
TexasBred":1h3cghri said:
Ever stand downwind of a field getting chicken manure? There is a little difference in lime and the calcium in chicken litter so I don't know if it is the same chemical reaction. I know I have smelled lovely mixture of dairy cow manure and lime. I would take your head off with the smell of all that ammonium leaving.
Lime is nothing more than a simple name for calcium carbonate with a big of magnesium carbonate also present. Calcium is odorless. You'r just smelling good rich manure Dave, very high in nitrogen as most chicken are fed more protein than they need so it's passes through.

What you are smelling is ammonium (NH4) volatizing off into the atmosphere. There are a number of environmental factors that control the rate at which volatization occurs. Regardless of how and why this is happening that ammonium smell is also the smell of nitrogen leaving your field. I think we have all heard people say that the odor of manure is the smell of money. But reality is it is the smell of money leaving. And personally I want to keep every bit of nitrogen on my fields because it has the potential to be used by the grass to grow more and better forage.
 
What is the actual chemical reaction between lime and nitrogen? Our fert guy was telling us about how you can take fine ground lime, get it wet, and mix it and a urea pellet between your fingers, and almost instantly smell the ammonia. I've never done it, but it makes sense.

In regards to the original question, I was always told that you are paying for lime whether you actually apply it or not. This is because of the reduced yields caused by the low ph. Dollar for dollar you are better off correcting ph first before applying the other fertilizers.
 
toughntender":22rqq06b said:
What is the actual chemical reaction between lime and nitrogen? Our fert guy was telling us about how you can take fine ground lime, get it wet, and mix it and a urea pellet between your fingers, and almost instantly smell the ammonia. I've never done it, but it makes sense.

In regards to the original question, I was always told that you are paying for lime whether you actually apply it or not. This is because of the reduced yields caused by the low ph. Dollar for dollar you are better off correcting ph first before applying the other fertilizers.

The reasoning behind putting out lime in the fall and fertilizer in the spring.

Tell your fertilizer salesman he doesn't have to have the lime to mix with the urea to smell the ammonia. It's all in the urea. Put a bead on your tongue and let it melt. ;-)
 
The only thing I know about lime, is it will keep me awake tonight. Every time it rains all the quarries around here blast all night long. It's rained all day.
 
fenceman":3r9h79p7 said:
The only thing I know about lime, is it will keep me awake tonight. Every time it rains all the quarries around here blast all night long. It's rained all day.
:lol2: :lol2: :lol: :lol:
 
toughntender":3926w67x said:
Texasbred- I was wrong it was ammonium sulfate not urea. Urea on a hot humid day will disappear in a few hours.
Not quite that quickly but that is why you put it out just before the rain starts if at all possible. ;-)
 
I have had pretty impressive results using agrotrain. I want spread urea with out it anymore. Cheap insurance.
 

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