colostrum deficency

[jt]

take a calf that doesnt get enough or has to be tubed with a powdered colostrum instead of getting his mom's....

i have noticed that they are sometimes not very lively... the are alive, but have very little energy...

my question is.. will they grow out of this? once their own immune system kicks in at about 2 months, will they come around and grow off normal?

thanks

jt

 

[dun]

Just a personal opinion, but I think part of the reason they're a little slower to get rolling is because they did have to be tubed or given the substitute stuff. Whatever the root cause of that problem is projected into the calf.

dun

 

[jt]

Just a personal opinion, but I think part of the reason they're a little slower to get rolling is because they did have to be tubed or given the substitute stuff. Whatever the root cause of that problem is projected into the calf.

dun

do they finally catch up?

jt

 

[dun]

Just a personal opinion, but I think part of the reason they're a little slower to get rolling is because they did have to be tubed or given the substitute stuff. Whatever the root cause of that problem is projected into the calf.

dun

do they finally catch up?

jt

Some did, some didn't. I know that's pretty ambiguous but it depended on the reason they needed the extra treatment in the first place.
One heifer from last year that did catch up we kept as a replacement.

dun

 

[jt]

Just a personal opinion, but I think part of the reason they're a little slower to get rolling is because they did have to be tubed or given the substitute stuff. Whatever the root cause of that problem is projected into the calf.

dun

do they finally catch up?

jt

Some did, some didn't. I know that's pretty ambiguous but it depended on the reason they needed the extra treatment in the first place.
One heifer from last year that did catch up we kept as a replacement.

dun

i suppose it is more of a getting the calf to being more active/healthy or what ever its problem is that causes it to be sluggish... and i am assuming it's sluggishness is due to the lack of enough or quality enough colostrum... the heifer you kept... were you able to put her on another cow?.. i guess what i am asking is how did you manage her to help her get back to normal?



jt

 

[dun]

He mother had allowed herself to be nursed dry a couple of weeks before calving. When she did calve she didn;t have much of any cholstorum plus she had severe edema in her udder so opnly had a very limited amount of milk. We cleared up the edema by the fourth day and the calf went on from there.
A couple of years ago we had a calf who'se mother didn;t have squat for milk till the second day. He never caught up, but none of her subsequent calves grew worth didly squat either.
We had another last year that was born soething like 17 days early. She grew well but she only weighed around 40 lbs at birth. She was alwasy lagging behind in growth compared to all of the others but for starting at that kind of a deficit she didn;t do too bad. But at the backgrounder she only averaged 1.9 ADG while the other heifers averages 2.6.
Calves before the last few years it would have been eyeball estimation (SWAG) since we didn;t weight them and sold everything at weaning at the sale barn.

dun

 

[jerry27150]

yes they will

 

[TheBullLady]

It may be some other problem is making the calf weak / sluggish. It's possible it's "cooking" some type of illness.. scours, pnuemonia, etc. My experience with bottle calves that haven't nursed the cow is they sometimes get sick, but if you can keep them hydrated and nursing, they will come out of it, and go on to be good producers.

 

[jt]

Just a personal opinion, but I think part of the reason they're a little slower to get rolling is because they did have to be tubed or given the substitute stuff. Whatever the root cause of that problem is projected into the calf.

dun

do they finally catch up?

jt

Some did, some didn't. I know that's pretty ambiguous but it depended on the reason they needed the extra treatment in the first place.
One heifer from last year that did catch up we kept as a replacement.

dun

well,, this one didnt catch up... couldnt keep him well... thought at one time there he was going to make it, had him on another cow and had turned them out, but he got sick again and went down fast. vet said that many times the ones that dont get mom's first milk, never come around... always relapsing, etc..

learned a valuable lesson here..

jt

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

It's all in the timing. Yes, it's best that they get mom's colostrom - but even that's only best if its right away - within the first few hours. If they don't get mom's col - than another cow's or the good powder kind is fine - as long as it's RIGHT AWAY. The REASON that they don't jump up & suck in 15-30 minutes determines how they will perform after you intervene. If they have weak calf syndrome (born weak because mom has had low quality feed) than they may never get going good. If they don't suck because they are lacking in selenium, AND YOU GIVE IT SELENIUM, than they usually get going just fine. If they had a hard delivery & you get colostrom in them immediately (sooner the better with dystocia) they should be fine.
If they don't get colostrom til after 12 hours - I wouldn't bank on them ever doing great. Maybe good, but not great.
Now there are many on this board they can say they had a calf that did great & didn't suck for days. Well, they are the exception - not the rule. and how "great" would they have been if they got colostrom right away???

 

[dun]

If the calf has just had a rough start like the calfsickles did, I'll give them cholostrum the second. Not for the antibodys but for the extra nourishment. Don;t know if it does any good, but it hasn;t ever done any harm.

dun

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

If the calf has just had a rough start like the calfsickles did, I'll give them cholostrum the second. Not for the antibodys but for the extra nourishment. Don;t know if it does any good, but it hasn;t ever done any harm.

dun

Yes, IF we have to supply the 2nd, or 3rd nursing, it's deffinately colostrom - up to 24 hours old. That's what it would be getting from mom. You can't just feed them once and forget about them if they aren't up & doing it on their own, like (I'm afraid) many new comers may do. If they're not getting their own nourishment, you need to supply it every 12 hours.

 

[jt]

thanks jeanne,

if i understand you correctly.. you are saying a calf that has to make it on powdered colostrum only... can make it and do ok, but he needs to get that powdered colstrum about 3 times (birth, at 12 hours, and 24 hours)


thanks

jt

 

[TheBullLady]

The calves that we've raised over the years that did not get colostrum from the cow, we fed a bottle of the "packaged" as soon as we realized there was a problem. Now that can be immediately after calving (ideal) or a day later, depending on how lucky you were to figure out there was something wrong.

After the initial feeding, we continue to feed the packaged colostrum up to 24 hours. After that we mix half colostrum x half milk replacer. Don't know if that does any good, but we haven't lost a calf for years. I really think the packaged colostrum has improved dramatically in quality. Years ago it wasn't nearly as good a product,

 

[jt]

i have a cow that is about 1/2 jersey and she give a lot of milk... when she calves next time, my plans are to let her calf nurse first and then milk out some colostrum to freeze.

jt

 

[TLCfromARK]

One of my heifers had her first calf a week ago sometime during the night. Found it the next morning, it had been licked dry and she was right there with it but it didn't appear that it had sucked. I got the calf up but the heifer didn't want any part of the corral ( yes, she is a tiger stripe, gentle as a dog out in the field but???). I gave it a colostrum bolus and about a pint of calf starter replacement milk. The heifer was hanging around the corral so when I finished I opened the gate and she came on into the corral. I got her in the chute and tried to get the calf to suck but he fought me pretty hard. Ended up milking about a 1/2 pint of of her milk into my calf bottle and got that down him, he liked it a lot better than the mix, Ha. Pointed him in the right direction on his mom and he went to town on his own! Who ever said in another thread that seeing a calf hooked up with his momma with his tail switching was a pretty sight was right! I kept them up for about 24 hours just in case he had anymore problems but he's ripping & romping with the rest of the calves now.

By the way this was the 2nd calf I've gotten out of our Angus bull thats on our 2 yr. heifers, my brother has gotten 6 so far. We're really happy with these calves, as soon as I can I'll post some pictures of these new babies.

On the flip side, 3 years ago I had one pretty much the same situation. Had the calf up for almost 3 days trying to get it to suck morning and night, giving it bouses, etc. it ended up dieing.

;-)

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

thanks jeanne,

if i understand you correctly.. you are saying a calf that has to make it on powdered colostrum only... can make it and do ok, but he needs to get that powdered colstrum about 3 times (birth, at 12 hours, and 24 hours)


thanks

jt

JT, yes, that's exactly what I mean. Up to 24 hours old, they can utilize the antibodies in the colostrom, after 24 hrs. no benefit, except for the laxative affect which is needed when they are a few hours old. Every hour after birth, their stomach changes and keeps reducing the ability to utilize colostrom up to 24 hours. Milking out your cow immediately after the calf nurse is an excellent idea. Freeze it in 2 quart containers, so that you thaw out just what you need.

TheBullLady: Yes, the powder colostrom has improved greatly. I printed a research article in my newsletter about a year ago, comparing the different brands. Life Line was supposed to be the best. They fed the calves the different ones, than drew blood after so long. Life Line gave the calves almost the same results as cows colostrom. Also, remember the colostrom from a 4-9 year old cow is the best. Younger & older isn't as potent, but is still good.

 

[jt]

thanks jeanne,

if i understand you correctly.. you are saying a calf that has to make it on powdered colostrum only... can make it and do ok, but he needs to get that powdered colstrum about 3 times (birth, at 12 hours, and 24 hours)


thanks

jt

JT, yes, that's exactly what I mean. Up to 24 hours old, they can utilize the antibodies in the colostrom, after 24 hrs. no benefit, except for the laxative affect which is needed when they are a few hours old. Every hour after birth, their stomach changes and keeps reducing the ability to utilize colostrom up to 24 hours. Milking out your cow immediately after the calf nurse is an excellent idea. Freeze it in 2 quart containers, so that you thaw out just what you need.

TheBullLady: Yes, the powder colostrom has improved greatly. I printed a research article in my newsletter about a year ago, comparing the different brands. Life Line was supposed to be the best. They fed the calves the different ones, than drew blood after so long. Life Line gave the calves almost the same results as cows colostrom. Also, remember the colostrom from a 4-9 year old cow is the best. Younger & older isn't as potent, but is still good.

thanks!!

jt

 

[TheBullLady]

I've got a nifty little gadget I got from our vet up north that actually measures the quality of colostrom from a cow / heifer. The best quality I've gotten was out of a 5 year old Simmental / Holstein cross. I froze a lot of that!

 

[Beefy]

Some did, some didn't. I know that's pretty ambiguous but it depended on the reason they needed the extra treatment in the first place.
One heifer from last year that did catch up we kept as a replacement.

dun

*GASP!* You mean you kept a calf you had to fiddle with as a replacement?! You are sooo crossed off the list now... lol