color and breed trends

[ekingcattle]

Below is the future - calf out of a British White cow bred to red angus. Why?

Lighter colored means less heat stress which means more profits. Also pigment around eyes. And since acreages are getting smaller, more people want pretty cows.

Eventually people will realize black cattle in most of the states is not a good idea.

http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2007 ... 1033.shtml

More people need to realize black isn't efficient around here in this 100+ degree Texas heat we have here. It should be more about efficiency not just a standard color

 

[Massey135]

Are these British whites not also black hided?


Black folks evolved in the hottest climates in the world; whites in the coldest. The lightest colored animals are native to the arctic for crying out loud.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

to John Q Public this is a angus http://www.visualphotos.com/photo/2x272 ... 857174.jpg every house wife know's the name angus,, its gonna be hard to knock them outa the number one spot,, they get a bad steak they dont blame it on being angus beef, cause to them thats the only beef offered

 

[TexasBred]

Are these British whites not also black hided?


Black folks evolved in the hottest climates in the world; whites in the coldest. The lightest colored animals are native to the arctic for crying out loud.

That is for "camo". ;-) From what little I know about BW's (and it's only what I've read) the skin is pink and may have a few dark spots.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

we have more caves in our county then all of the states combined,,, i remember the crawdads in the water and streams in those cave being transparent you could see all of their internal organs

 

[sim.-ang.king]

we have more caves in our county then all of the states combined,,, i remember the crawdads in the water and streams in those cave being transparent you could see all of their internal organs

Are you saying if we shaved a British White we could see it's innards? :lol:

 

[Nite Hawk]

It seems that trends vary depending on where you are. In our "neck of the woods" for a long time Charolais were popular and then fell out of favor due to calving difficulties due to heavy bone.
Semmintal were popular for a while due to their fast growth rates, but they too fell out of favor due to the higher birth rates.
Angus were basically unheard of, and then they took over as the most popular due to easier calving and good survivability in tough conditions, and at this time are still at the top.
Breeders have been trying to change the type of cattle they are raising to meet the market in this area.
Many of the Charolais people in this area have been doing an incredible job at getting the heavy bone size and difficult calving down, ( often crossing with angus) and increasing the muscling till they really don't look much like the old style Charolais. I even heard they have black Charolais out there now!
The Semmintal people have been crossing with red angus for lower bith weights and smaller bone, and trying to get rid of alot of the real flighty type cattle.
Breeding some real nice looking cattle.
Alot more solid red cattle and more polled genetics.
On the big ranches with hundreds or with a few thousand head, that polled gene is really liked, as it means less work.
Also, the local stockyards are charging
at least $10 bucks a head for horned cattle as they don't want to deal with horned animals. When you have a large herd, it runs into bucks, so the breeders usually are running cattle that have been de-horned or polled cattle.
Some of the popularity in some breed trends are due not only to improved animals being bred and brought into the area, but sometimes due to lots of advertising and publicity and good public relations by breed associations.
Of course in some areas the show ring winnings in big shows also is a breed promotion in itself.
What is the next trend? What is the demand out there? excellent flavored extra lean meat, or what ever it is, the breed that can "re-invent" itself and has the right promotion.
Nite Hawk

 

[cow pollinater]

Regardless of what the up and coming trend may be, SO MANY CATTLE are black and angus-ish that it will be a looong time before they fall out of favor as favor will always go to uniform sets of cattle that can give consumers a uniform product and there are a ton of cows in the pipeline that have to go away before the trend changes.
Angus dominates for the carcass that's in demand today. red angus is nearly the same but the esiest way to spot the carcass influence of angus is the black hide.
You might have five of the best quality char cows that have ever walked the face of this earth... but when the calves walk through the sale ring, all the packer buyers see is an odd duck that doesn't fit the rest of the cattle he's used to seeing and at that point you'd be better of to have angus or a breed that fits somewhere into what angus buyers are used to seeing.

 

[cross_7]

if it doesn't start raining this will be only cattle left, that can survive

 

[andybob]

Breeding red cattle makes the most sense, for those wanting to supply the CAB market, a homogyzous Black Angus bull can be used to produce a terminal black generation. Red gives a wide selection of breeds, for temperate environments there are Red Poll, Red Angus, Devon, Sussex and Hereford, the last two being the best foragers, and with the improvements achieved by dedicated Hereford breeders over recent years, the problems associated with the breed in recent years are fast being selected out. In the southern states, composites such as Santa Gertrudis and Bonsmara, and pure reds including Red Brahman and several red Zebu strains, with a growing number of red Tuli and Mashona being available give a wider choice of adapted dam lines. The next hurdle for ranchers in the south is to develop a market that does not dock Indicus influenced steers.

 

[HDRider]

dj,
That is a fine looking calf. How many like that do you have? What do they grow to frame-wise?

Where are you? I don't know didly, but I know black is hot. Lighter colors, almost any color other than black makes so much sense to me, especially down south.

 

[JustSimmental]

I think that we will begin to finally see a trend toward quality regardless of color. The day when US' largest grocer > Walmart < decided it was going Choice was a game changer for sure. No longer can the packers pawn off the dregs of Select on Wally World>> they raised the bar and to keep up -- so must we. The days of Limmis, Maines, Charolais, Gelbvieh, Chianina, FB Simms and Brahman influences has past as there is little market now available for that kind of beef (the consistency and flavor of a roof shingle).
Out of the bull calves born in 2011, here, the best all around Performer including EPD's was Red. I like red cattle because they do better in this heat.

This is not new News:
Very high lean, low marbling, low milk, late puberty

Charolais - very high growth
Chianina - very high growth
Limousin - moderate growth

High lean, moderate marbling, high milk, moderate puberty

Simmental - very high growth
Maine Anjou - very high growth
Select Gelbvieh - very high growth
Brown Swiss - high growth

Moderate lean, moderate marbling, high milk, early puberty

South Devon - moderate growth
Tarentaise - moderate growth
Pinzgauer - moderate growth

Moderate lean, low marbling, high milk, very late puberty, heat tolerant

Brahman - high growth
Sahiwal - low growth

Low lean, high marbling, moderate milk, moderate puberty

Angus - moderate growth
Hereford - moderate growth
Red Poll - low growth
Devon - low growth

Very high milk, high marbling, early puberty

Holstein - moderate lean, high growth
Jersey - low lean, low growth

we all know like everything else in the world breeds and colors go in trends. right now the major trend is black, and mostly black angus. here in north central texas black brangus is king which i raise myself. but id like to see where yall think the trend will go next. from my observation things are slowly shifting to red. people have meddled with black angus long enough to the point where the genetics are getting weaker where as red angus genetics are stronger in my opinion, im thinking about breeding some red braman to some red angus and see how that goes. but lets hear your opinion on where the market is going to go!

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Justa you are full of crap!

 

[slick4591]

Looks like some of that was lifted from here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=pEWA1_ ... th&f=false

 

[DOC HARRIS]

we all know like everything else in the world breeds and colors go in trends. right now the major trend is black, and mostly black angus. here in north central texas black brangus is king which i raise myself. but id like to see where yall think the trend will go next. from my observation things are slowly shifting to red. people have meddled with black angus long enough to the point where the genetics are getting weaker where as red angus genetics are stronger in my opinion, im thinking about breeding some red braman to some red angus and see how that goes. but lets hear your opinion on where the market is going to go!

ekingcattle-

This is an interesting subject for discussion. The disadvantage of attempting to answer or describe one's "reasons" for their answer is your 'working hypothesis' focuses on weaker or stronger genetics, which leads one to assume that the subject of genetics is theory and not fact.

I am sure that the majority of advanced thinking by beef producers these days accepts the fact that the science of Genetics is not theory, but accepted scientific evidence of proof. Therefore, we should seriously examine the 'intepretations' of weaker and stronger genetics.

Many of the posts answering this thread have strayed from the original intent of the subject matter and tended to focus on color (hide or hair), cross-breeding (which is a great side-discussion on this subject), and other rather tenuous descriptions of weak or strong.

In my opinion, JustSimmental, andybob, cow pollinator, and Nite Hawk have hit the "genetics" reasons as the correct approach to a newer 'trend'.

DOC HARRIS

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Doc i went back and read all the posts on this thread. They be a lot more to raiseing cattle for profit than selling the highest priced calf at the barn. Its the dollars that stay in your pocket at the years end that count. No one breed can do it all.

 

[3waycross]

we all know like everything else in the world breeds and colors go in trends. right now the major trend is black, and mostly black angus. here in north central texas black brangus is king which i raise myself. but id like to see where yall think the trend will go next. from my observation things are slowly shifting to red. people have meddled with black angus long enough to the point where the genetics are getting weaker where as red angus genetics are stronger in my opinion, im thinking about breeding some red braman to some red angus and see how that goes. but lets hear your opinion on where the market is going to go!

ekingcattle-

This is an interesting subject for discussion. The disadvantage of attempting to answer or describe one's "reasons" for their answer is your 'working hypothesis' focuses on weaker or stronger genetics, which leads one to assume that the subject of genetics is theory and not fact.

I am sure that the majority of advanced thinking by beef producers these days accepts the fact that the science of Genetics is not theory, but accepted scientific evidence of proof. Therefore, we should seriously examine the 'intepretations' of weaker and stronger genetics.

Many of the posts answering this thread have strayed from the original intent of the subject matter and tended to focus on color (hide or hair), cross-breeding (which is a great side-discussion on this subject), and other rather tenuous descriptions of weak or strong.

In my opinion, JustSimmental, andybob, cow pollinator, and Nite Hawk have hit the "genetics" reasons as the correct approach to a newer 'trend'.

DOC HARRIS

On the other hand I will lay in bed tonight and wonder just how it would feel to shove my hand down Justsimmental's throat, grab him by the ahole and turn him inside out..................pretty good i think and i doubt anyone would be able to look at him and tell the difference!

But then that's just me daydreaming!

 

[cow pollinater]

I think we've already seen the move towards quality over quantity. That's why the industry is now dominated by similar black cattle... Angus cattle had an edge and the industry moved that way. There was a demand for lots of similar cattle with high marbling and everyone moved towards a breed that offered that.
It would not surprise me to see a greater acceptance of red cattle but I doubt it will change the breeds that we're dealing with as all the players have red and black offerings that are mostly pretty similar except for herefords and angus fans have been knocking the red off of them for awile now.
Where we would lose on a shift to red or anything else is the amount of information that has been compiled by breeders of black cattle of all breeds. The angus association has epd's down to a fine science... raa, not so much.
I also feel that the shift to black has ruined what an angus cow is suposed to be... It's hard to find genetics that make a thousand pound momma that can live on not much and still give a five hundred plus pound calf anymore. Red angus may have an advantage there but the lack of information keeps us in the dark.

 

[Stocker Steve]

With the high kill price big cows seldom make it back to the country once they hit a sales barn. So a trend towards efficiency.
A small shift back to red locally. South Devon are trendy and spendy.
A small shift back to Hereford north of here. Mostly Herf bulls on black cows for wf calves. So a trend towards profitable.
A continued interest in big black calves. Mostly simi x angus. I have some Limi x angus & Limi x Herf calves this summer that are the best looking group I have raised. So a trend towards terminal crosses.

Add it up and you get a black Limi or Simi bull over a 1100 to 1250# red wf cow with a wooly coat. :cboy:

 

[djinwa]

Are these British whites not also black hided?


Black folks evolved in the hottest climates in the world; whites in the coldest. The lightest colored animals are native to the arctic for crying out loud.

That is for "camo". ;-) From what little I know about BW's (and it's only what I've read) the skin is pink and may have a few dark spots.

I forgot about this thread, so a little more info.

Yes, TB, polar bears are white because black polar bears have a little harder time sneaking up on a seal, "for crying out loud!" Black would give them an advantage staying warm in the winter, except that only works when the sun is shining, which isn't often. The advantage of catching something to eat (or not being eaten if you are prey) outweighs the disadvantage of less warming.

Yes, there are black people in hot climates. If you lack hair to protect you from UV radiation, you need dark skin to avoid sunburn and cancer.

Ideal cattle have a light hair coat to reflect solar radiation, but pigment on exposed skin to avoid sunburn. These are widely accepted concepts, yet there contiunues to be resistance to them among cattle folk.

Here's some reading:

http://nimss.umd.edu/homepages/home.cfm?trackID=11616

Current information using modern cattle is needed so that cow-calf producers in the Southern region can make informed breeding decisions to profitably produce cattle under their environmental challenges. Tropically-adapted breeds such as the Brahman (and to a lesser extent other adapted breeds such as those of Criollo or Sanga origin), are used widely in this region, however their offspring have a reputation for poor performance in stocker and feedlot operations on the Great Plains. As a result, many cow-calf producers in this region are attempting to use non-adapted cattle, such as British or other Bos taurus breeds.

---------------------------------------

In most areas of the world, cattle destined for slaughter are fattened on grass. In the southern U.S. this requires cattle that are well-adapted to the ambient conditions (high temperature and humidity) and it is usually expected that only Bos indicus or Bos indicus crosses can be sufficiently adapted to such conditions to grow rapidly and efficiently. Since both a light coat color and a short hair length contribute significantly to increased heat tolerance, it is possible that the combination of short hair and lighter coloration will result in an animal with high growth potential under grazing conditions in the southern U.S. without Bos indicus influence.

http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/Cattlemen ... 0study.pdf

death loss in feedlots during heat wave

Producers with the nonshaded
lots reported highest death loss in dark-hided
cattle. Thirty out of 36 producers indicated higher death
loss in black cattle and the other six producers
indicated higher death loss with red cattle and had no
black cattle on feed. One producer indicated only 20%
of the cattle in the pen were black, but 80% of the
death loss was black cattle.