Clipping

[AAOK]

farmwife,

I intended this statement to address just that: I see the Show Ring as an Extracurricular Event area, and my personal opinion is that the Teachers should stick to the classroom, and in the case of Ag Ed, their Field hour. Washing, clipping, drying, brushing, showing, etc. can be perfected through practice. There is no right or wrong way to do any of the Show Cattle tasks, thus no need for an instructor. In rebutal to myself, I do believe that parents should be in charge of this guidence. I totally agree that it is an ongoing education.
Our family's first show was exactly that, but we had gone to several shows and watched how the winners worked at their preparation, and we also asked way too many questions. Everyone was friendly and helpful. We were fairly well prepared at out first show, but very inskilled. Practice, Practice, Practice.

 

[farmwife]

farmwife,

I intended this statement to address just that: I see the Show Ring as an Extracurricular Event area, and my personal opinion is that the Teachers should stick to the classroom, and in the case of Ag Ed, their Field hour. Washing, clipping, drying, brushing, showing, etc. can be perfected through practice. There is no right or wrong way to do any of the Show Cattle tasks, thus no need for an instructor. In rebutal to myself, I do believe that parents should be in charge of this guidence. I totally agree that it is an ongoing education.
Our family's first show was exactly that, but we had gone to several shows and watched how the winners worked at their preparation, and we also asked way too many questions. Everyone was friendly and helpful. We were fairly well prepared at out first show, but very inskilled. Practice, Practice, Practice.

So, how were you fairly wll prepared at your first show.

 

[gertfan]

ok, if Farmwife is an ag teacher and also a 4H leader what is wrong with her helping these kids learn? This may be the only person they have to turn to to learn. I think it's great that there is someone to help. We don't have that around here, the beef program here has no guidance, you either know it or you dont'.

 

[farmwife]

ok, if Farmwife is an ag teacher and also a 4H leader what is wrong with her helping these kids learn? This may be the only person they have to turn to to learn. I think it's great that there is someone to help. We don't have that around here, the beef program here has no guidance, you either know it or you dont'.

Thanks for the support!!! At least one other person has a brain cell when it comes to teaching kids and parents for that matter. AAOK, according to your website, you are from the city and at one point didn't have a clue about showing, so somebody had to teach you whether it was direct contact or not. Kudos to those who taught AAOK all he knows whether you meant to or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[AAOK]

ok, if Farmwife is an ag teacher and also a 4H leader what is wrong with her helping these kids learn? This may be the only person they have to turn to to learn. I think it's great that there is someone to help. We don't have that around here, the beef program here has no guidance, you either know it or you dont'.

Thanks for the support!!! At least one other person has a brain cell when it comes to teaching kids and parents for that matter. AAOK, according to your website, you are from the city and at one point didn't have a clue about showing, so somebody had to teach you whether it was direct contact or not. Kudos to those who taught AAOK all he knows whether you meant to or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Correct! We were self taught. As to how we were well prepared at our first show; we watch, studied and questioned the folks who knew how to win. At first, we had all the equipment that we needed, and knew what to do, but were way short on experience. Our family and the Show Friends we quicky found worked together. But, none of this was really the point I was trying to present. Here's the BEEF of my thoughts:

Why concern yourself with who else is doing what? Don't worry about the parents who do all the work. Don't put down those who have everything hired out. Just knuckle down and teach yourselves how to go out and beat the socks off "those people".

 

[farmwife]

ok, if Farmwife is an ag teacher and also a 4H leader what is wrong with her helping these kids learn? This may be the only person they have to turn to to learn. I think it's great that there is someone to help. We don't have that around here, the beef program here has no guidance, you either know it or you dont'.

Thanks for the support!!! At least one other person has a brain cell when it comes to teaching kids and parents for that matter. AAOK, according to your website, you are from the city and at one point didn't have a clue about showing, so somebody had to teach you whether it was direct contact or not. Kudos to those who taught AAOK all he knows whether you meant to or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Correct! We were self taught. As to how we were well prepared at our first show; we watch, studied and questioned the folks who knew how to win. At first, we had all the equipment that we needed, and knew what to do, but were way short on experience. Our family and the Show Friends we quicky found worked together. But, none of this was really the point I was trying to present. Here's the BEEF of my thoughts:

Why concern yourself with who else is doing what? Don't worry about the parents who do all the work. Don't put down those who have everything hired out. Just knuckle down and teach yourselves how to go out and beat the socks off "those people".

As I recall I didn't start this whole thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read the previous posts. Being an ag teacher, I think I know what my job is and sure don't need you to start telling me or others like how to do it!!

 

[Jovid]

ok, if Farmwife is an ag teacher and also a 4H leader what is wrong with her helping these kids learn? This may be the only person they have to turn to to learn. I think it's great that there is someone to help. We don't have that around here, the beef program here has no guidance, you either know it or you dont'.

Thanks for the support!!! At least one other person has a brain cell when it comes to teaching kids and parents for that matter. AAOK, according to your website, you are from the city and at one point didn't have a clue about showing, so somebody had to teach you whether it was direct contact or not. Kudos to those who taught AAOK all he knows whether you meant to or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Correct! We were self taught. As to how we were well prepared at our first show; we watch, studied and questioned the folks who knew how to win. At first, we had all the equipment that we needed, and knew what to do, but were way short on experience. Our family and the Show Friends we quicky found worked together. But, none of this was really the point I was trying to present. Here's the BEEF of my thoughts:

Why concern yourself with who else is doing what? Don't worry about the parents who do all the work. Don't put down those who have everything hired out. Just knuckle down and teach yourselves how to go out and beat the socks off "those people".

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Anonymous]

Cool rooms for show cattle? Now I've heard everything.
Some people must go to great extents just for a winner's ribbon.

 

[gertfan]

you are so right!

 

[cattleluvr18]

do what i do...find somebody thats good at it and have them teach u. have them do it for atleast your first show. then when u have a good break, practice it yourself!

 

[cattleluvr18]

and to add to my previous comment......

i agree that parents and other people should help but they shoud absolutly NOT do it for them or hire just to make sure their kid wins the show. seriously, if the kid cant do the work, they dont deserve to win or even have the cattle. yeah im a 14 year old girl but that doesnt make me uncapable to do my own work. the only time my dad has helped me with my calves is to tie them up because he IS stronger than me so yeah i need help but that doesnt mean he does all the work for me, nor does he want to. i had to pay for my breeding heifers out of my savings account which i built up by working and selling my own calves. let your kids find out how good it feels from being able to buy your own things with your own money and whith calves you get to watch them grow and pay off unstead of letting mommy and daddy doing everything and just getting credit for it because people dont kno what actually goes on at home.

 

[skcatlman]

Well it is a good idea to have the kids do all the work but i see too many parents trying to relive their childhood or use the junior circuit as a promotional tool.
Last year my nefew was in first year of 4-H as a cloverbud (pre-Junior) he had to show a sucking calf and he came out to my place twice during the week after school and on weekends. I picked a calf that was a twin, that was nusing but also took the bottle i helped him halter break the calf and taught him the basics of clipping, grooming,fitting aand showing . He was my little second hand. He worked hard and absorbed like a sponge. Come show day i though i would never want a kid of mine to be exposed to that at his age. He put in the time and everykid his age was acusing him of cheating, older kids and parents wanted him kicked out of the club. The reason the judge could see that he was ready to take on the older kids. So he placed first in the cloverbuds and then got bumped to the open age classes he won grooming,showmanship,and calender year calf , bred and raised. He whipped the 17 yr olds and they ended up putting the ultimatum either he leaves the club or they do. So he is out of beef. When he gets older he will work for me on the show road. He loves it and with this kind of start will kick butt in a few years. But as for the jealousy i think the other kids he showed against will realize that this kid has the talent for it and his uncle knows how to teach. The work was done and that why the little guy was winning. Just because i show alot doesn't mean i did the work, i won't say i didn't help or teach him some tricks but at achiement day not only was my nefew accused of cheating but afterwards i was accused of clipping, prefitting the calf for him . I would not admit to that, i helped him showing how i would do it and how and what prodcuts to use and why . So i would never be part of that club, as a parent or leader.

 

[showkid1200]

Well they just made are Fair this year blow and go and I really can say I HATE it. I don't hate it because we aren't alowwed to use adhesives but to me one of the funniest things to do with cattle is fit them. And what really upsets me is there is only two kids in are fair that work and fit there cows, me and my friend. All the other kids feed there steers once a day and wash them once a month if that. Kids down here are in it for the money but these past couple of years they have complained because we always win showmanship and fitting and grooming and have the most docile and good looking calves, its because we work there hair everyday and feed them a balanced diet and supplements. Are local breeders are getting mad because northern cattle are winning down here now and its bull honky!

 

[Anonymous]

Our kids pick there calves out of the pasture or they can go buy one. They go and pretty much do every thing on there own all i do is give them feed for the animals and not bagged feed. when I even come around when they are working with them the calves go nuts. And then the kids go and get to keep the money from the auction. my 15 year old son has a f-350 truck and a 24 foot stock trailer that he had to pay for. And then all the city kids come in with brand new trucks and featherlite trailers of their parents that sit behind there house and then get used 3 times a year to go 7 miles. And this is what i dont get Their parents go and buy $5000 calves and then go and buy feed that is $900 a ton when they only sell the calves for 5000 and their parents do it all. O yea and this is for county

 

[rimranch]

For our county there is only one big breeder near by and almost all of the kid get their calves form her. She has bred grand and reserve for the last five years some people go out and buy really expensive calves from out of state but hers still win and she sells them for only $800. As far as the clipping and fiting go i believe that the traing at home and anything done at the show the kid should do. The parent should never touch the calf unless their is an issue with saftey on the other hand i believe their is no problem with getting your steer clipped off the show grounds. At home if you want a clipper to come out then fine but on the grounds you sould defidently fit yourself, i see it as not sacraficing the quality of the steer for the teaching of the child. With fitting their gets to be more of a line between what is good and what is just aqaquate. a bad clip job will seriously hurt a steer from first to fifith place but a bad fitting job on the legs may only be first to second place, depending on the quality of the class.

 

[cattle gal]

well, from my experience . i have been showing cattle for about 11 years now and this is my second to last year and our county and just about any county i show in i never see the kids doing there own work i have seen kids show up to 8 calves at one show and never lay a hand on that calf till they are in the show ring with it and then complain if they didnt place first or come out and gloat that they did . im sorry ive been to alot of shows and this year my show strand consist of 7 head and i groom feed and show all of them and wheither i do good or bad at the end of the day it feels good to know that i did all that and got in the showring and got to show the judge the real deal . and i can bet that most kids will never know that feeling . i have always done my own work . it took me a long time to get to were i could get a good clip on my show cattle and yea sometimes i still mess up with the clip but the judges still see the effert that was made and the judges that are still down to earth and know about other than just * choose the black angus * will see ( no effence to the black angus lovers )that effert

 

[PA Pig Man]

I think some of you have forgotten why we do this. We, my family and I, do this to spend quality time with our children and our friends and family. Raising and showing livestock will prepare them for their adult lives in more ways than you can imagine. I help my kids break, groom, feed, and care for their animals. I enjoy it more than I should. The best way to teach a kid is to do the work together with them getting their hands dirty. They will learn as you go and in four or five years it is amazing how much information they retain.

On the subject of outside fitting, I showed for fifteen years as a youngster on the county level during the 80s and early 90s. Pretty much everybody clipped and fitted his/her own animals. The fitting was pretty basic back then. The times have changed and our county fair, due to the influx of "clipping professionals," has changed to a wash and blow only show. People still hire outside help to clip and fit their animals, they just do it at home rather than at the show. But, each year, more and more show up during the fair. I do not agree with adding fillers to dress the legs or other parts of the carcass, however, I believe you should be able to use adhesive or dressing to pop and hold the hair. We can use absolutely nothing. It now takes more time and patience to groom and fit than ever. The blow and show method makes a good clip job essential. To sum up, going to the blow and show has actually encouraged more people to get outside help to fit and clip, rather than deter it.

I feel the pain of you parents and showers who have complained about kids not doing the work or parents reliving their childhood. What I say to you is to work with your livestock, learn all you possibly can about clipping and fitting, and ask a lot of questions to any "professional" you happen across. Most are more than willing to help. Fitting, especially for a show and blow contest, starts months ahead at home working the hair. Forget about those who do not do their own work and concentrate on your job at hand. At the end of the year, the real prize is your own pride for your accomplishments.

 

[AAOK]

I think some of you have forgotten why we do this. We, my family and I, do this to spend quality time with our children and our friends and family. Raising and showing livestock will prepare them for their adult lives in more ways than you can imagine. I help my kids break, groom, feed, and care for their animals. I enjoy it more than I should. The best way to teach a kid is to do the work together with them getting their hands dirty. They will learn as you go and in four or five years it is amazing how much information they retain.

Right On PA Pig Man!!!
I had quite a few posts at the beginning of this thread trying to get across this same point. I think you did a better job. It should not be just the kids, and also should not be for the fitters at the Junior shows. There are no better coaches for children than their parents, and all too often, there are none worse than parents: those who never help, or hire it out to someome else, or expect the teachers to do it all.

I also agree with your statements about working, and training hair for the Blow & Go shows. But, for the kids who don't get any help, or proper training, the B & G shows do them more harm than good. I still like to see FULL BLOWN fitting(without artificial hair). The whole point is to exhibit a calf the very best it can be. Fit 'em to their fullest potential!!

 

[iowahawkeyes]

I agree with you PA pig man and AAOK. My husband was self taught and stood DAL many times. It takes a lot of hard work and practice to become successful, and successful to us is showing an animal to the best of its ability and getting it looking its best. We have chosen to build a showbarn so that we can do that. It allows us access in the bitter cold (-11* today) that we normally wouldn't have. Also, in the summer they can get cool, we only have our AC at 68* with fans.

As far as fairs, especially county fairs, the fair board is to be held accountable for most of these problems. They make the rules. We all have horror stories about that I'm sure. Our county enacted a rule a couple years ago about no outside help, only relatives and 4H leaders. It so happens that some people are just better fitters than others and they complain and get rules changed or whatever. I think 99% comes down to jealousy. In many aspects of life, people that have monetary success have people resent their having money. It's the same with success in cattle. That's why there are slick shear and blow and go shows. I definitely think the B&G shows are an advantage for good fitters, they have done the homework of getting the hair trained.

As far as hiring people to take care of their calves. We live in America and if that how they want it, they are allowed. These people spend $20-50,000 on a calf and want to win. Does that make it right? I don't know or necessarily care, the show cattle business is brutal and it's not want you know, but who you know. That's just the way it is. We have been on both sides of that and I accept it. We do our own work and are training our kids on how it is done (according to us). We don't make them do everything b/c they are too young to do it all, but they get up every morning and get out there and help.

 

[cattleluvr18]

thats good you HELP your kids but your not DOING IT FOR THEM OR HIRING IT DONE. there is a big difference between the two. i dont think parents understand how much us kids appriciate you HELP us. if it wasnt for my dad, i would be a townie :shock: :roll: