Classic hereford questions

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BC

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Too small. The average steer carcass two weeks ago was 868 lbs. That would be a 1400 lb steer dressing 62% = 868 lbs.
 

Aaron

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Fine type if you're direct marketing. But you will get slaughtered at the sales barn for being too small of frame and too fat on the rail. It would be the equivalent price of selling a Galloway or Scottish Highland - which would bankrupt guys who are actually making a living with Hereford cattle. Last fall I got 1.45-1.55 for my 9 weight steers. Fellow who is a big Galloway breeder got .80 to 1.00 for same weight cattle - but he admits he doesn't care as he survives on his pension.

It would be great if all breeds could be maintained as their original type - but that doesn't work in the real world free market - small pockets maybe.
 
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Hollis

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Ok let's look at what everyone gave up chasing high marbling, fast gaining animals. Did it really get us ahead of the game?
 

Aaron

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Hollis":2cbiehjl said:
Ok let's look at what everyone gave up chasing high marbling, fast gaining animals. Did it really get us ahead of the game?

Everyone doesn't have to play the game. But don't be surprised if you're deemed irrelevant if you don't. Similar to high school. You don't have to play football - but don't be surprised if the cheerleaders don't give you the time of day, if you don't.

If the money didn't matter, Angus would not be such a big concern. But color does matter in the real world - just like performance does.
 

Son of Butch

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Hollis":z2vw9957 said:
Ok let's look at what everyone gave up chasing high marbling, fast gaining animals.
Did it really get us ahead of the game?
Depends on your game.
IF the game is to supply high quality protein economically to the rest of the country then the answer is yes.
IF the game is to have a few cattle and a job in town the answer is no.
IF the game is cattle as pets first and food second then the answer is a resounding NO.
 

Son of Butch

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Aaron":3nh5rw57 said:
Hollis":3nh5rw57 said:
Ok let's look at what everyone gave up chasing high marbling, fast gaining animals.
Did it really get us ahead of the game?

Everyone doesn't have to play the game. But don't be surprised if you're deemed irrelevant if you don't.
Similar to high school. You don't have to play football - but don't be surprised if the cheerleaders don't give you
the time of day, if you don't.

If the money didn't matter, Angus would not be such a big concern.
But color does matter in the real world - just like performance does.
Well, put.
 

JWBrahman

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Hollis":9caebh1v said:
How come people don't raise this type


Where is that bull and is he for sale? I would stick him on Brahman and Braford cows this morning and laugh all the way to the bank.
 
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Hollis

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JWBrahman":1xw9fy9f said:
Hollis":1xw9fy9f said:
How come people don't raise this type


Where is that bull and is he for sale? I would stick him on Brahman and Braford cows this morning and laugh all the way to the bank.

Cannot answer those questions. He used to belong to Jerry Hambley. Do search on here u will find this picture.
 

JWBrahman

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Hollis that is 6V, isn't it? I was joking around to prove a point. There is no such thing as a one size fits all type, frame, or breed. 6V bred to a Brahman or Brahman F1 will produce calves that wean 600 pounds plus in five months. 6V bred to a Canadian Simmford or Holstangus would probably be a stupid move.
 
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Hollis

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JWBrahman":28qynnk5 said:
Hollis that is 6V, isn't it? I was joking around to prove a point. There is no such thing as a one size fits all type, frame, or breed. 6V bred to a Brahman or Brahman F1 will produce calves that wean 600 pounds plus in five months. 6V bred to a Canadian Simmford or Holstangus would probably be a stupid move.

No this is a polled trask bred bull.

6v is very similar
 

BC

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Aaron":3eynvx9q said:
Fine type if you're direct marketing. But you will get slaughtered at the sales barn for being too small of frame and too fat on the rail. It would be the equivalent price of selling a Galloway or Scottish Highland - which would bankrupt guys who are actually making a living with Hereford cattle. Last fall I got 1.45-1.55 for my 9 weight steers. Fellow who is a big Galloway breeder got .80 to 1.00 for same weight cattle - but he admits he doesn't care as he survives on his pension.

It would be great if all breeds could be maintained as their original type - but that doesn't work in the real world free market - small pockets maybe.
Thank you Aaron for stating what I wanted to say. If you have a market for grass fed or direct market at a lighter weight carcass, then this bull might have a place. If you are selling all your calves at the sale barn, those calves will wind up in a feedyard and then one of the 4 big packers. That is our customer and that customer is wanting a live animal in the 1350 to 1450 lb range.
 

Petercoates87

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Incoming newbie question again. What's wrong with this guy in the picture? I know we can tell how tall he might be but he looks good to me. He got a chunky butt, looks thick in the middle and got a thick neck. What's a classic hereford smaller than today's cattle? What's a good live weight at a year?
 
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Hollis

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Petercoates87":12qmnhub said:
Incoming newbie question again. What's wrong with this guy in the picture? I know we can tell how tall he might be but he looks good to me. He got a chunky butt, looks thick in the middle and got a thick neck. What's a classic hereford smaller than today's cattle? What's a good live weight at a year?

Nothing wrong other than he is to easy keeping. Lower growth probably but has longevity built in. We took that away along with easy keeping and fertility to chase numbers and growth.
 

SPH

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The bull has some desirable traits, I like his thickness and I don't think anyone is trying to discredit him other than pointing out that to say that you can't just take 1 type and say that all animals in that breed should look exactly like his type. Like several have stated about this topic - which has lead to some good discussion - I think one of the best comments so far was what JWBrahman said "There is no such thing as a one size fits all type, frame, or breed." I think that statement was about as to the point as anyone can get. A bull like that may do well for certain breeders and in certain areas and markets but not as much in others. The same can be said for probably everyone here that you could take their cattle and move them to the other end of the country furthest away from the environment they were raised in and you are going to find differences in the type of cattle in demand and being raised in those markets/area are not going to mirror where they came from.

Anyone who thinks there is such a thing as "one size fits all" type of breeding needs to broaden their views past their own market and environment more. Breeders don't tell the buyers in their market what they should be buying, they listen to what the buyers are telling them about the type they want because ultimately the buyers are the ones you are going to count on to pay the bills and be able to be successful. It's kind of like telling a guy who is looking for a tractor to do heavy field work with that your small chore tractor is of good quality and does a good job for what you need it to do so it should be good for him too. We all know that wouldn't fly, the same type of thinking can be applied to cattle. You probably aren't going to convince a guy looking for a specific type that has done well and had success with that another type is what he should use instead.
 

Petercoates87

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OK makes sense. I have read you guys talk about liking certain traits like a chunky butt or think mid section. Makes sense. Crazy how you guys have to cater to things needs. So how long do everyone keep their cattle for til it's time to market them?
 

JWBrahman

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The bull has good traits, like his long tail, curly masculine hair, small ears, etc.

Breeding cattle is a juggling act with many factors to consider. Almost always there is a trade off between desirable traits.

A good yearling bull weight depends on the frame, but probably in the neighborhood of 1200 without being pushed on hot rations. Don't focus as much on the weight as you do the condition of the bull. If he is shiny and fat as heck at 1250 weighing 50 pounds more may be irrelevant.

The sweet spot for cow calf operators is to sell a weaned, vaccinated/immunized calf at 750 pounds. Depending on your situation you may just wean them on the trailer at 6 months. You have to learn what works best for you.
 

Petercoates87

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Well here we don't have any auctions or shipping off cattle to a feedlot like everyone else has. Here we are all direct sell to the customer. Newfoundland just has a provincial slaughterhouses and they are family owned. So I have only sold 2 Bulls and I have gotten them to up about 1000-1100 lbs and then get them butchered. I know most might think it's too much screwing around to direct sell to the customer and it might be if your producing 50+ head a year. But I sell rite to the customer sometimes it's by the quarter sometimes a larger box of different cuts. Or sometimes by the cut. For me it's the best way to get the most for the animal.
 

elkwc

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SPH":33hz1hlv said:
The bull has some desirable traits, I like his thickness and I don't think anyone is trying to discredit him other than pointing out that to say that you can't just take 1 type and say that all animals in that breed should look exactly like his type. Like several have stated about this topic - which has lead to some good discussion - I think one of the best comments so far was what JWBrahman said "There is no such thing as a one size fits all type, frame, or breed." I think that statement was about as to the point as anyone can get. A bull like that may do well for certain breeders and in certain areas and markets but not as much in others. The same can be said for probably everyone here that you could take their cattle and move them to the other end of the country furthest away from the environment they were raised in and you are going to find differences in the type of cattle in demand and being raised in those markets/area are not going to mirror where they came from.

Anyone who thinks there is such a thing as "one size fits all" type of breeding needs to broaden their views past their own market and environment more. Breeders don't tell the buyers in their market what they should be buying, they listen to what the buyers are telling them about the type they want because ultimately the buyers are the ones you are going to count on to pay the bills and be able to be successful. It's kind of like telling a guy who is looking for a tractor to do heavy field work with that your small chore tractor is of good quality and does a good job for what you need it to do so it should be good for him too. We all know that wouldn't fly, the same type of thinking can be applied to cattle. You probably aren't going to convince a guy looking for a specific type that has done well and had success with that another type is what he should use instead.
Travis very well stated. I often relate to some mini Hereford breeders I know about. They can run more cattle on less acres. They are easier to handle and they sell everything they raise that they don't keep for replacements and have a waiting list for the meat. They wouldn't work for a rancher on a 10,000 acre ranch where they had to travel a distance for food and water but do well on smaller acreages and I'm told the beef is among the best. I was always taught to take the hand you were dealt and figure out how to make it work the best for you. Again no size or color works best for all.
 

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