Clarkmore Farm Planning

[simme]

If drought is an issue, maybe a deep drilled well and a center pivot to increase the carrying capacity. Would need to eliminate some of those cross fences for that, maybe. Or just install an antenna and those collars for virtual fences. Could track the cows with those as well if they get lost in the tall grass.
Maybe we can get the Government Efficiency Guys to evaluate that. That center pivot and well on 12 acres might be overkill. Good Grief!

One thing the government can be counted on is to spend all the money. Ain't gonna lose no sleep worrying about them leaving money in the account at year end.

 

[Dave]

I worked for a conservation district for 20+ years. Over that time I got a lot of money for the producers I worked with. But I really tried to only fund projects which helped the farmer and made sense financially. But I certainly witnessed projects which were a total waste of government money. The best one was a man who had a dozen sheep. He wanted some sort of confinement next to his barn to keep the sheep out of the mud. They funded a 30 by 50 concrete pad. The concrete was 6 inches deep with rebar with 18 inch spacing. The fence around it was pressure treated 6x6 posts with 4 high pressure treated 2x12. With the space between boards it must have been over 5 feet tall. This to hold a dozen sheep. Made me sick when I saw what this NRCS person had designed and paid for.

 

[littletom]

Is taep funded from taxes dollars? Or is like caip in Ky?

 

[clarkmorefarm]

Is taep funded from taxes dollars? Or is like caip in Ky?

I honestly don't know. Would have to look it up.

TN doesn't have a state income tax so I'm not sure if it comes from our sales tax, or?

 

[littletom]

From what i just read it is very similar. Sad its not explained. The state agreed to stop lawsuits against big tobacco over health care. In return they would pay x amount of money to the state. The state could do what they wanted to do with it. Some put in general fund some payed back to farmers in tobacco producing states. Caip in ky taep pretty sure in Tennesse. To allegedly help farms make money from farm with out tobacco. More tobacco state grew more money. Here more tobacco per county more money. In return the state would not allow a new tobacco finished product factory to open in that state. As new company would not be paying the millions to the state.
Now i just did a quick search on Taep but pretty sure this is what funds it. Same as Caip in Kentucky. I agree with some of what has been said. About gov. programs and hobby farms making false sense of farm finances. I also think some of payments to large farms are a bunch of ****. According to the usda I am not a hobby farm. Caip is 100% not tax dollars but 4 big tobacco companies dollars. Just wanted to put this out there. Carry on

 

[Twisted]

Yup... it's already happened to the majority of Tennessee apparently. It's too late to save "agriculture" there. Let's hope that we can still get ahead of it where it hasn't already been lost.

You think that we're somehow "saving agriculture" when all the farmers that intended to make a living by their farming are forced out because the product they produce is valued by society and priced below the cost of production, so that they end up splitting up their farms and selling it off as small "buildable parcel farmettes" to self-proclaimed "hobby farmers" who entirely expect to subsidize their farming operation with off-farm income and wealth, and taxpayer subsidies, and who don't even consider it to be reckless to spend taxpayer dollars on infrastructure that can't possibly be justified through the product that they're raising? That's not saving agricultue... that's buying into the socialist agenda.

That mentality IS the problem ... can't beat 'em... might as well join 'em. In government we trust, and in government we've all become dependent.

I have read twice in this thread where you believe that the small rancher is putting the big rancher out of business. You say your farm is 400 acres, with the average size of a Tennessee farm being less than 150 acres your ideology is skewed. Through out the history of farming in our country, those who are not on the cutting edge of technology and efficiency, are the ones who falter, it has nothing to do with the size of the farm. Less than 100 years ago, all farms were less than 150 acres.

 

[Travlr]

I have read twice in this thread where you believe that the small rancher is putting the big rancher out of business. You say your farm is 400 acres, with the average size of a Tennessee farm being less than 150 acres your ideology is skewed. Through out the history of farming in our country, those who are not on the cutting edge of technology and efficiency, are the ones who falter, it has nothing to do with the size of the farm. Less than 100 years ago, all farms were less than 150 acres.

The thing putting most farmers out of business at this point is the price of real estate. In the cattle business the land we use has to be priced by the amount of beef we can produce on it or it's going to become a hobby farm or a subdivision due to it being too valuable to be used to produce beef. Soon enough only the very wealthy will own acreage of any size and beef will only be a sideline to private hunting permits or relegated to federal lands if they even continue to lease it for grazing.

 

[kenny thomas]

In the 1970's a tractor big enough to do our tobacco work coukd be bought for $4000 or less. Now $50,000. Its not only the real estate.

 

[Travlr]

In the 1970's a tractor big enough to do our tobacco work coukd be bought for $4000 or less. Now $50,000. Its not only the real estate.

Yeah, that's also the next thing... and your four thousand dollar tractor could be rebuilt at home for the price of an engine rebuild kit, and the fifty-k tractor will have to be brought in to the dealership to diagnose a sensor.

 

[kenny thomas]

Yeah, that's also the next thing... and your four thousand dollar tractor could be rebuilt at home for the price of an engine rebuild kit, and the fifty-k tractor will have to be brought in to the dealership to diagnose a sensor.

Yes i could clutch a 3000 Ford in less than a day for $125.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Not so... the particular producer for whom the $$$ have been approved may not have access to it, for this particular project, if he doesn't spend the full amount, BUT, if he uses less than his full grant amount, the remaining balance would remain in the funding pool to help fund other projects where the benefits actually CAN justify it. These grants require someone at NRCS/SWCD to design the project, and to APPROVE the project. If there's no way to see that "the inputs" of the project can even come close to be being "justified" with outcomes, why the heck are they getting approved?

The real premise would be, "If the money IS spent" on the approved projects, THEN it's lost to ever being able to be used on other projects where it could perhaps have been justified. I used to be in sales, and sold product to municipalities, counties and state entities. When it comes to the end of the fiscal year, they're always looking for ways to "cap out" their budget... buying stuff that they otherwise wouldn't have to buy... or wouldn't have to buy yet... so that they use up their entire allotted budget. That way, they ensure that they'll get at least as much, if not more, next year, rather than potentially incurring a cut in their allotted budget because they didn't spend it all. Same thing applies to these grant programs. The idea is "use it all", so it looks like the "need" is greater, so you'll get more funding to play with next year.

And we wonder why we've got an out of control national debt...

@RDFF, we are dealing with an entirely different funding pool here. This is not NRCS/SWCD funding money. This TAEP is totally upside down from what I typically deal with. In this case, the TAEP is STATE money so the rules I'm familiar with do not apply, which means I can't refer to NRCS/SWCD rules. I know I can't because the money from the award in this case is not dependent upon what practices are intended to be installed, which are a pre-requisite for funding with the federal programs I work with. In this case, its pretty much the complete opposite, the practices are dependent upon the money which has already been awarded. I can't even begin to apply federal rules for funding here. From the jist of what I'm reading, I'm getting the message, "I've been given this pile of money and have been told to use it". With the federal system. You tell the feds what exactly you want to do and they then award you the money for those projects, those projects only, and you have to use the money for those projects within the allotted time frame or there are penalties. Those are the base rules for federal money that is awarded. That said, there is a good bit of wiggle room/room for modifications, but there are parameters that set boundaries. The money spoken of at the beginning of this thread has a completely different set of guidelines I am not familiar with, but federal rules do not apply at a minimum.

 

[mayesfarm]

Is taep funded from taxes dollars? Or is like caip in Ky?

Living in TN and not participating in the TAEP program, I can speak to this question, originally TAEP funds were from the tobacco settlement money. It was aimed at helping tobacco farmers replace their lost income by diversifying or improving other agricultural operations which were already in place and we had a lot of tobacco farmers, most of those folks had just been forced out of the pig business a few years earlier. Sounds like a good idea... Now I understand that there is a tax on tobacco that funds this program and all funds come from this specific tax.

My understanding is that now anyone that meets a minimum number of acres or head of livestock can apply and receive funding, if they meet the criteria whether they ever grew a tobacco plant in their life or not. I see it many times a day, I just drive any direction from my farm an see these signs (usually hanging on gov't funded hay sheds) that say "TN Master Beef Producer" and I know that these folks weren't tobacco farmers. Obviously the politicians saw how many votes that this "free money" was buying them.

At first the main effect was to drive bull and livestock handling equipment prices up by a third, which happened to match the cost share amount and still made the out of pocket portion equal to the cost before the TAEP started. Now they have expanded it to almost every capital investment on most farms, hay machinery, bushhogs, trailers, replacement heifers (as long as they meet the guidelines), etc. It is not just cattle, the list is very long.

It is good if you are selling bulls that meet the specs or equipment, not if you are buying. Everybody that can milk this deal has their hands in the pot, extension has these "Master Beef Producer" classes, where they bring in these industry experts to give a sales pitch to a captive audience.

I can't afford to buy anything in the sate of TN. We make capital purchases with profits, if there is not enough profit then we don't buy it. Anyone who doesn't participate is forced to overpay, do without or buy from a state without this kind of government interference.

NRCs projects are a totally different thing, I do participate in some of their programs, but I always ask where the funding comes from.

Agriculture is still a very viable industry in TN and most of us that treat it as a business are successful at it. There are also a lot of people that don't know the difference between running an agricultural business and "playing farmer". Many people in my area don't realize that their livestock are really no different that lap dogs, they just live outside.

So yes the TAEP is taxpayer funded and yes it is very abused.

 

[RDFF]

Living in TN and not participating in the TAEP program, I can speak to this question, originally TAEP funds were from the tobacco settlement money. It was aimed at helping tobacco farmers replace their lost income by diversifying or improving other agricultural operations which were already in place and we had a lot of tobacco farmers, most of those folks had just been forced out of the pig business a few years earlier. Sounds like a good idea... Now I understand that there is a tax on tobacco that funds this program and all funds come from this specific tax.

My understanding is that now anyone that meets a minimum number of acres or head of livestock can apply and receive funding, if they meet the criteria whether they ever grew a tobacco plant in their life or not. I see it many times a day, I just drive any direction from my farm an see these signs (usually hanging on gov't funded hay sheds) that say "TN Master Beef Producer" and I know that these folks weren't tobacco farmers. Obviously the politicians saw how many votes that this "free money" was buying them.

At first the main effect was to drive bull and livestock handling equipment prices up by a third, which happened to match the cost share amount and still made the out of pocket portion equal to the cost before the TAEP started. Now they have expanded it to almost every capital investment on most farms, hay machinery, bushhogs, trailers, replacement heifers (as long as they meet the guidelines), etc. It is not just cattle, the list is very long.

It is good if you are selling bulls that meet the specs or equipment, not if you are buying. Everybody that can milk this deal has their hands in the pot, extension has these "Master Beef Producer" classes, where they bring in these industry experts to give a sales pitch to a captive audience.

I can't afford to buy anything in the sate of TN. We make capital purchases with profits, if there is not enough profit then we don't buy it. Anyone who doesn't participate is forced to overpay, do without or buy from a state without this kind of government interference.

NRCs projects are a totally different thing, I do participate in some of their programs, but I always ask where the funding comes from.

Agriculture is still a very viable industry in TN and most of us that treat it as a business are successful at it. There are also a lot of people that don't know the difference between running an agricultural business and "playing farmer". Many people in my area don't realize that their livestock are really no different that lap dogs, they just live outside.

So yes the TAEP is taxpayer funded and yes it is very abused.

@mayesfarm , THANK YOU! All of these "well intentioned" programs eventually become abused, and have their negative socialist impact on the very industry that they were intended to be "helping out".

"Free college" and "wipe out all the student loans"... just look at all the "colleges" that have sprung up to take advantage of these programs and the students that are their "customers". Our schools have indoctrinated the kids with liberal socialist ideology, telling them "not to worry" about where they'll get the money to go to college, or how they'll eventually pay it back... we'll FIND you the money (through grant and loan programs), and the "payback piece" will automatically be there from your six-figure paycheck once you've graduated. And you'll be able to start out right at the top, instead of having to work your way up.

The real world, and having to make things WORK in the real world, with REAL... (not subsidized) economics, is what will make this country "great" again. Too much "funny money" and "phantom economics" being played, everywhere. And nobody is being told that they need to recognize the difference between "necessities" and "luxury expense items".

Just look how increasingly "dependent" on "government" we in agriculture have become in just the last few years (only shows through 2012, obviously doesn't show the increases during Covid). This is NOT a good trendline!!! Dependency = ability to control you!
https://i0.wp.com/prosancons.com/wp...02/022419_1357_ProsandCons1-1.png?fit=672,345

 

[mwj]

I want you folks to remember this thread when you pay your taxes and are looking for deductions!

 

[wbvs58]

Where I am whenever government hands out "free" money it is the tradesmen who get the lions share of it by grossly inflating their prices but people are happy thinking that the government is paying towards it. We have very few farm programs but our solar panel scheme is ripped off pretty good by the sparky's.
I do my own work but from my neighbours experience if you want electrical work done they will be weeks getting around to you, if you want solar panels put in they will be out the same day to sign you up, now blind Freddy could tell you that there is quite a bit in it for them.

Ken

 

[RDFF]

@clarkmorefarm, take a look at this video to get an idea of what I'm referring to as a "Medina Hinge"... functions similarly to what they're calling a "Bryce chute". Dickinson Cattle Company Handling Facilities

 

[StrojanHerefords]

If you need the help take it. If you don't let somebody have it that needs it more than you. The last time I went to the FSA office, at the next cubicle there was a fellow berating the government worker. I thought to myself, your somebody who gets to live a life most people would love to live, why are you berating someone stuck in a dimly lit office.