Clarity Herbicide generic brand, "Detonate"

[Chuckie]

I am going to spray again on a non rain day with little wind to spray Detonate. Made by BASF. Clarity is the expensive brand, but Detonate is much cheaper. Clarity was $246 for 2.5 gallons and Detonate was $90. Nice!! I will mix 10 gallons of Class Act again with the herbicide as it kicks the herbicide into gear on the plant absorbing it as a foliage fertilizer. It does contain nitrogen and sugars.

It calls for 32 oz an acre. What I am targeting is the Blackberry, Horse nettle, trumpet vine and Indian Hemp or called Dogbane Hemp. I have another vine that my iPhone is calling it "Honey vine." So, I am not really sure if that is what it is.
Page 8 and 9 have a very long list of weeds that it does kill. So many.

https://www.cdms.net/ldat/ld9EF001.pdf

After I spray it, I will give you a report on how it does.

 

[Chuckie]

Well, what do you know.. Just a new name for Dicambia!
Diglycolamine salt of 3,6-dichloro-o-anisic acid.

I will have to spray this as quick as I can as they will be coming in soon to plant the field behind me. I have not been fond of Dicambia because the people spray it in high winds and I have lost all the shrubs in front of my house and my trees are slowly dying from it. I have begged them to pick a day that the wind is not blowing so hard. They see the dead tree by the road and all the lower limbs falling and big branches breaking off up high in the other trees. They often do not comply. Usually have to take a trailer to pick up the dead branches each time I mow. I will catch this early in the morning when the air is still or less than 5 mph.

 

[bird dog]

I was just going to mention to be careful if you have cotton in your area. I don't pretend to know what I am talking about but the way I understand it, is the salt part of the product is different than regular Dicamba and it makes the product volatilize slower. This means it can drift some a few days after spraying.

 

[bird dog]

You might want to read this thread from Ag Talk to kind of understand what I was trying to say.

Viewing a thread - Clarity Herbicide

BTW. I use the old style Dicamba 2 4 d products like Brash, Rifle D, Weedmaster and others . The name they gave me this year is Grass Master.

 

[Chuckie]

Thank you Bird Dog. This is cotton country for sure. They have till may 10th to get it in the ground. But I am trying to beat them if I can and will see what tomorrow holds. I am going to read what you posted about Clarity herbicide.

 

[Chuckie]

Thank you Bird Dog. This is cotton country for sure. They have till may 10th to get it in the ground. But I am trying to beat them if I can and will see what tomorrow holds. I am going to read what you posted about Clarity herbicide.

You know what is weird, that Clarity being dicamba, and Detonate being dicamba as well. But Clarity would not kill the weeds that Detonate will. Of course I am no scientist, but can they change dicamba up to kill just certain weeds and the Bermuda remains safe?
I am half way through the forum thread that you posted. It has a lot of info there. Thank you.

 

[Chuckie]

The farmers around here were saying two years ago that dicamba was going to be illegal to use because so many people were not following the safety rules to use it. So I see that they just renamed it. I admit, that I am just learning about chemicals, but the one thing I know is that I must not spray when the wind is high or the clouds are low. And most important to me is that the farmer behind me to the North has not planted his field or have it prepared to do so.

 

[wbvs58]

My understanding is that the most dangerous time to spray is early morning in still conditions when an inversion is likely. A bit of breeze is good.

Weather Conditions to Avoid

Inversions

The most hazardous condition for herbicide spray drift is an atmospheric inversion, especially when combined with high humidity. Do not spray under inversion conditions.
An inversion exists when temperature increases with altitude instead of decreasing. An inversion is like a cold blanket of air above the ground, usually less than 50 m thick. Air will not rise above this blanket; and smoke or fine spray droplets and particles of spray deposited within an inversion will float until the inversion breaks down.
Inversions usually occur on clear, calm mornings and nights. To start spraying the sun should be higher than 20 degrees above the horizon, with a light wind. Windy or turbulent conditions prevent inversion formation. Blankets of fog, dust or smoke and the tendency for sounds and smells to carry long distances indicate inversion conditions.

Ken

 

[greybeard]

The farmers around here were saying two years ago that dicamba was going to be illegal to use because so many people were not following the safety rules to use it. So I see that they just renamed it.

I doubt that is exactly what happened. I have never sprayed much dicamba because of the amount of standing water I had in ponds and canals, plus my East property line was a river. West line was a National Forest.

Dicamba is the active ingredient at 58.1% of the total mixture in the jug in both brands. The rest (41.9%) is some sort of inert mix of chemicals, meaning that part doesn't actually kill the plant. In both herbicides, dicamba is dicamba is dicamba, but the inert chemicals may be completely different. They are the carrier in the mixture that works to help keep the dicamba stable, or make it easily soluble, or to keep the odor down or to prevent gelling......or make it work better on the plant, or whatever the manufacturer thought the mixture needed. I've been told by more than 1 TAMU Agrilife guy that the inert part is often just as important as the active ingredient, or more so except we never know what those ingredients are, when comparing different brands. All we know, is one may work better than the other and that they are often different prices. The generic brands usually don't have to try to recover the R&D costs that the original company spent developing the mixture.

I have however, had better luck most of the time with the brand name over the generic in most herbicides. I've used some generics that didn't seem to do squat compared to the original, even tho the active ingredients were both the same and in the same %s.
Your results may vary.

 

[Chuckie]

Ken, I have often started a fire to see if there was a low front that would hold the smoke down to a low level. If the smoke goes up straight into the sky, it is safer to spray. If it levels out, forming a ceiling just above the land, then spraying is out of the question.
I called the chemical company this morning to make sure that it would be safe to spray as they have not started on the field behind me that is to the north as the wind blows in that direction unless a cold front comes in and changes the wind from the north.

My hay field is so infested with Horse nettle and trumpet vine, that I don't feel that it will be something I want to feed to cow or horses. The horse nettle and black berry is trying to take over. This must be sprayed or the field is useless.

The chemical company told me that 99% of the soybeans and cotton are dicamba tolerant. They spray dicamaba over the tops of the beans and cotton as well, so he said I am safe. But still I am very cautious.

Here in the area of Tennessee that I live in, almost every field is surrounded by a drainage ditch which most of the time has running water. Often they are spring fed and often it is the water table is coming out of high land and just water flowing from the ground to the lowest point, which are the drainage ditches between all of these patch work fields. We have very small fields as compared to what I have sen as I have traveled across the land to Canada, and can only imagine how small each field is compared to South Dakota and out West. Close to the main rivers, like the Mississippi, the fields can be large along the edges. But the further you get away from a river, the smaller the fields become here.

Even the two 10 acre plots I live on are all surrounded by running water, as it leads to a creek and then to a smaller river, then to the Mississippi River. I have a 76 acre farm down the road and it is split into two fields with spring fed tiny creeks.
Truthfully I hate chemicals, and I hate weeds. I cannot grow a crop without the chemicals.

There are always fish and turtles living in the small creeks around the land. They seem to thrive through all the dicamba that has been sprayed over the years. The farmer across the road has been spraying me for years. My trees show the damage and lost one whole tree and another is dying. Branches falling off the bottom and major limbs die and break off. I have asked and wrote letters to him asking him to stop spraying when the winds are high, but each year, he seems to hit me hard. I take pictures each year to show the change and death of the trees if he does not stop his method of spraying.
This is why I am being very careful with spraying these fields. The wind is blowing 2 mph today and the temp is going to be in the 70's.
Here are a few of my trees from the farmer across the road with no regard for anyone other than himself.

 

[Chuckie]

I doubt that is exactly what happened. I have never sprayed much dicamba because of the amount of standing water I had in ponds and canals, plus my East property line was a river. West line was a National Forest.

Dicamba is the active ingredient at 58.1% of the total mixture in the jug in both brands. The rest (41.9%) is some sort of inert mix of chemicals, meaning that part doesn't actually kill the plant. In both herbicides, dicamba is dicamba is dicamba, but the inert chemicals may be completely different. They are the carrier in the mixture that works to help keep the dicamba stable, or make it easily soluble, or to keep the odor down or to prevent gelling......or make it work better on the plant, or whatever the manufacturer thought the mixture needed. I've been told by more than 1 TAMU Agrilife guy that the inert part is often just as important as the active ingredient, or more so except we never know what those ingredients are, when comparing different brands. All we know, is one may work better than the other and that they are often different prices. The generic brands usually don't have to try to recover the R&D costs that the original company spent developing the mixture.

I have however, had better luck most of the time with the brand name over the generic in most herbicides. I've used some generics that didn't seem to do squat compared to the original, even tho the active ingredients were both the same and in the same %s.
Your results may vary.

I know that is not what happened. Although it was talked about at the Farmer's Co-op and all through out the community, we were pretty excited that they would replace it with something safer. Well that was just a dream. It seems to be the drug of choice now to combat weeds. Just as Heroin and Meth will be with us forever, so will dicamba.

 

[Chuckie]

Wind was blowing out of the north when I went out this morning Uh-Oh as the man to the South of me had already planted soy beans and they were up. So I called him to see if he had planted Dicamba tolerant beans and he said yes he did and that we should be safe with the 2mph winds and he thanked me for calling him before I sprayed. Can't imagine how much bean seed cost this day and time, if that dicamba had spread over his field and he had to replant.

Got it sprayed and all went well. Took a picture of how thick the horse nettle was. I was just about to lose this hay field.

 

[Allenw]

Ken, I have often started a fire to see if there was a low front that would hold the smoke down to a low level. If the smoke goes up straight into the sky, it is safer to spray. If it levels out, forming a ceiling just above the land, then spraying is out of the question.
I called the chemical company this morning to make sure that it would be safe to spray as they have not started on the field behind me that is to the north as the wind blows in that direction unless a cold front comes in and changes the wind from the north.

My hay field is so infested with Horse nettle and trumpet vine, that I don't feel that it will be something I want to feed to cow or horses. The horse nettle and black berry is trying to take over. This must be sprayed or the field is useless.

The chemical company told me that 99% of the soybeans and cotton are dicamba tolerant. They spray dicamaba over the tops of the beans and cotton as well, so he said I am safe. But still I am very cautious.

Here in the area of Tennessee that I live in, almost every field is surrounded by a drainage ditch which most of the time has running water. Often they are spring fed and often it is the water table is coming out of high land and just water flowing from the ground to the lowest point, which are the drainage ditches between all of these patch work fields. We have very small fields as compared to what I have sen as I have traveled across the land to Canada, and can only imagine how small each field is compared to South Dakota and out West. Close to the main rivers, like the Mississippi, the fields can be large along the edges. But the further you get away from a river, the smaller the fields become here.

Even the two 10 acre plots I live on are all surrounded by running water, as it leads to a creek and then to a smaller river, then to the Mississippi River. I have a 76 acre farm down the road and it is split into two fields with spring fed tiny creeks.
Truthfully I hate chemicals, and I hate weeds. I cannot grow a crop without the chemicals.

There are always fish and turtles living in the small creeks around the land. They seem to thrive through all the dicamba that has been sprayed over the years. The farmer across the road has been spraying me for years. My trees show the damage and lost one whole tree and another is dying. Branches falling off the bottom and major limbs die and break off. I have asked and wrote letters to him asking him to stop spraying when the winds are high, but each year, he seems to hit me hard. I take pictures each year to show the change and death of the trees if he does not stop his method of spraying.
This is why I am being very careful with spraying these fields. The wind is blowing 2 mph today and the temp is going to be in the 70's.
Here are a few of my trees from the farmer across the road with no regard for anyone other than himself.
View attachment 57759View attachment 57760View attachment 57761

What kind of tree? Looks like maybe Honey Locust, if so they are very susceptible to herbicide damage like vetch and tomatoes.

 

[Chuckie]

What kind of tree? Looks like maybe Honey Locust, if so they are very susceptible to herbicide damage like vetch and tomatoes.

I do have some honey locust bordering my pastures. But there are none along the field lines. Here is a picture of the trees along my hay field and you can see that I a very careful with any herbicide that I spray. As up to now, I have not damaged any of my trees. If the conditions are not right when I get up in the morning and check the weather, look a the fronts that are close to us and if the clouds are high, slow breeze, then I spray. If I question all of that, I light a small branch fire and throw some leaves on top to get smoke and see where the smoke rises. If it goes straight up or has a slight bend but continues to go high, then I spray. I have been spraying and helping to spray for many years, but this is the first year I am having to make the call on all chemicals I use.

 

[Chuckie]

Pretty much all of the trees bordering my fields are oak trees. My honey locust has a compound leaf with small rounded leaves along the middle vein. Those small Horse Nettle plants have thorns from hell and it makes a tiny yellow tomato seed pod. It's leaves look like a tomato as well and I think it too is in the Night Shade family of plants. Which I do not understand as tomatoes are much like roses, they cannot tolerate any chemicals at all. My Muscadine will keep growing vine wise, but there are no grapes on it as it prevents it from flowering.

 

[greybeard]

The problem with that nettle is not just the seeds but all that big underground network of rhizomes it has. I had some seeds come in with a single round bale a friend provided while I was looking after his horse and I fought nettle for the next 2 1/2 years but finally got it exterminated.
You have your work cut out for you fer sure.

 

[Chuckie]

What kind of tree? Looks like maybe Honey Locust, if so they are very susceptible to herbicide damage like vetch and tomatoes.

I am sorry Allenw, I did not scroll down far enough to see that you had the attachment of the tree.
Those are oak trees. Some red and white oaks mixed in with pecan, Dogwood, Redbud and Hemlock. Quite a few Bur Oaks too. Did not mention all the shrubs that died across the front of my house, the roses that died in the back yard; about 20 of them, and my Muscadine vine has not produced any fruit in many years. Called my extension agent to come look at them and he would not. He said I had Oak Wilt. I knew this was BS so I asked him if Oak Wilt was also in all the species above that I mentioned. He said he would drive by my house but would not stop. Never saw the man.
He is for the farmer ONLY, as I was wanting help for him to try to teach this farmer that he was destroying my yard and change how he sprayed. He was so rude when I spoke with him. Then when I called back, they kept telling me that he had just stepped out.

When I spray, I call who ever is next to me to check to make sure things are good.

I write a letter to the farmer, and it is a registered letter, asking him to change how he is spraying as the field is about a mile long, and slowing rises towards my house. It is a sort of funnel effect, as he sprays, it all come to my land. I tell him, "Lets keep this between you and me, and resolve this problem." He does not respond back. He has the Extension Agent with him while the dust boils towards my house and trees. All I can say is that the Extension agent is setting up the County showing that he could care less as well. Each year the damage shows what he is doing. This is not just me complaining with words. You can see the destruction.

When the Extension agent refused to come see the damage to my trees, I called the Tennessee Forestry Division and they came out and looked at it all. The Forestry Division said that all my trees were severely damaged by Crop spray, and that even the roots of the trees were crossing over each other like a tic-tac-toe design showing distress and trying to stay alive. Bur Oak trees can have up to a 14" leaf, and on my younger trees, they had about a 3" leaf because it retards and stunts the leaves. The larger Oak trees, some of them had 3" leaves as well.
I always grow Bur Oaks each year and give them away as it is such a beautiful Oak with acorns the size of small hen eggs. They are huge. Each of the Forestry men took one or two each of the Bur Oaks I had growing in pots to plant at home.
I have been so sick about the whole thing, and I know if I push this that every farmer in this area will hold a grudge as farmers do what they want to do and ban together. I too am agriculture but not so much row cropping except on the other farm I rent out where beans and corn are mostly planted.

The letter I wrote to this farmer, as we have been trying to get him to stop in such high winds for over 10 years, and he has not. In this letter I told him of all the trees that are dying and along the road frontage, and also, my liver numbers have risen which is an indicator you have been exposed to the chemical Dicamba too much. It went down a bit after spraying, but just went for a test, and it has risen again. I know that he did the burn down, but when he gets ready to plant beans, that he will do a burn down before that, and he will let the winds roll.
He has even got the extension agent coming and sitting in front of his field as if he is monitoring the conditions, but you can see how the wind is rolling fast to my property and I can promise you that the spray is right in there with it. Mostly as he gets close to the road in front of my property.

So, one large tree died at the road and now has broken off and he can see it. So many limbs hanging at the base down to the ground where they are dying. He could care less.

If he damages the trees again, each time he does this, the slow death speeds up on the trees. So many very large limbs in these trees die off and break. It is crazy how this man is doing this.

I record the wind speed and keep a journal of that day and the conditions as I have an anemometer and the winds gust. The dates etc..... I have videos of him spraying showing how fast the dust comes towards my house with the spray. I don't think he realzes that the dust is a big indicator of the conditions he is spraying in.
I am close to going to an attorney. And I have a great dislike for attorneys as they want to take everything they can get their hands on. All the others do it, so then it must be OK for them to do it as well. Hard to get them to hold to t heir word as they will not sign what they say. They want you to sign, but what you want, they will not sign. They leave out all the wording that protects you from what they twist because they do not include it on their part of the contract. They do not work for free. I had rather raise rattlesnakes for a living as to deal with an attorney.
When my Grandparents bought this farm, the entire field across from them was a huge woods. Then when my Dad moved to the farm and for many years years in my childhood, it was woods. Then the first farmer cleared it off and made a pasture out of it. Then when it went into row crops. Before, the man who farmed it, did no damage to this place. The present farmer, he is entitled to do as he pleases and to he.ll with everyone else.

Such a nice place to live with a lot of privacy, no houses close to me, but I am not protected from the farmer that sprays his fields as he is killing much of what has been planted here over the years.
I am very upset about all of this.
The Honey Locust in the far corner of the property are still alive, but they lose a lot of limbs as well. But they are holding on as they probably get the least of the spray as they are protected by other trees in front of them.
The field I am showing with the tractor spraying, is in a field that is not directly in front of his fields. You can tell the man that takes care of that field across from that one, is not over spraying into my hay field as the trees are so healthy there.
The limbs that have grown large are now breaking off, and it retards a lot of the new limbs that form now making the mighty oaks look like small shrub limbs.
This is a constant anxiety to me as I have worked hard on this place for so so long. As I pick up a small trailer load of limbs each time I mow, and look up into the trees and see what has been done. Trees are just so beautiful and those mighty Oak trees are just so majestic.

 

[Allenw]

I am sorry Allenw, I did not scroll down far enough to see that you had the attachment of the tree.
Those are oak trees. Some red and white oaks mixed in with pecan, Dogwood, Redbud and Hemlock. Quite a few Bur Oaks too. Did not mention all the shrubs that died across the front of my house, the roses that died in the back yard; about 20 of them, and my Muscadine vine has not produced any fruit in many years. Called my extension agent to come look at them and he would not. He said I had Oak Wilt. I knew this was BS so I asked him if Oak Wilt was also in all the species above that I mentioned. He said he would drive by my house but would not stop. Never saw the man.
He is for the farmer ONLY, as I was wanting help for him to try to teach this farmer that he was destroying my yard and change how he sprayed. He was so rude when I spoke with him. Then when I called back, they kept telling me that he had just stepped out.

When I spray, I call who ever is next to me to check to make sure things are good.

I write a letter to the farmer, and it is a registered letter, asking him to change how he is spraying as the field is about a mile long, and slowing rises towards my house. It is a sort of funnel effect, as he sprays, it all come to my land. I tell him, "Lets keep this between you and me, and resolve this problem." He does not respond back. He has the Extension Agent with him while the dust boils towards my house and trees. All I can say is that the Extension agent is setting up the County showing that he could care less as well. Each year the damage shows what he is doing. This is not just me complaining with words. You can see the destruction.

When the Extension agent refused to come see the damage to my trees, I called the Tennessee Forestry Division and they came out and looked at it all. The Forestry Division said that all my trees were severely damaged by Crop spray, and that even the roots of the trees were crossing over each other like a tic-tac-toe design showing distress and trying to stay alive. Bur Oak trees can have up to a 14" leaf, and on my younger trees, they had about a 3" leaf because it retards and stunts the leaves. The larger Oak trees, some of them had 3" leaves as well.
I always grow Bur Oaks each year and give them away as it is such a beautiful Oak with acorns the size of small hen eggs. They are huge. Each of the Forestry men took one or two each of the Bur Oaks I had growing in pots to plant at home.
I have been so sick about the whole thing, and I know if I push this that every farmer in this area will hold a grudge as farmers do what they want to do and ban together. I too am agriculture but not so much row cropping except on the other farm I rent out where beans and corn are mostly planted.

The letter I wrote to this farmer, as we have been trying to get him to stop in such high winds for over 10 years, and he has not. In this letter I told him of all the trees that are dying and along the road frontage, and also, my liver numbers have risen which is an indicator you have been exposed to the chemical Dicamba too much. It went down a bit after spraying, but just went for a test, and it has risen again. I know that he did the burn down, but when he gets ready to plant beans, that he will do a burn down before that, and he will let the winds roll.
He has even got the extension agent coming and sitting in front of his field as if he is monitoring the conditions, but you can see how the wind is rolling fast to my property and I can promise you that the spray is right in there with it. Mostly as he gets close to the road in front of my property.

So, one large tree died at the road and now has broken off and he can see it. So many limbs hanging at the base down to the ground where they are dying. He could care less.

If he damages the trees again, each time he does this, the slow death speeds up on the trees. So many very large limbs in these trees die off and break. It is crazy how this man is doing this.

I record the wind speed and keep a journal of that day and the conditions as I have an anemometer and the winds gust. The dates etc..... I have videos of him spraying showing how fast the dust comes towards my house with the spray. I don't think he realzes that the dust is a big indicator of the conditions he is spraying in.
I am close to going to an attorney. And I have a great dislike for attorneys as they want to take everything they can get their hands on. All the others do it, so then it must be OK for them to do it as well. Hard to get them to hold to t heir word as they will not sign what they say. They want you to sign, but what you want, they will not sign. They leave out all the wording that protects you from what they twist because they do not include it on their part of the contract. They do not work for free. I had rather raise rattlesnakes for a living as to deal with an attorney.
When my Grandparents bought this farm, the entire field across from them was a huge woods. Then when my Dad moved to the farm and for many years years in my childhood, it was woods. Then the first farmer cleared it off and made a pasture out of it. Then when it went into row crops. Before, the man who farmed it, did no damage to this place. The present farmer, he is entitled to do as he pleases and to he.ll with everyone else.

Such a nice place to live with a lot of privacy, no houses close to me, but I am not protected from the farmer that sprays his fields as he is killing much of what has been planted here over the years.
I am very upset about all of this.
The Honey Locust in the far corner of the property are still alive, but they lose a lot of limbs as well. But they are holding on as they probably get the least of the spray as they are protected by other trees in front of them.
The field I am showing with the tractor spraying, is in a field that is not directly in front of his fields. You can tell the man that takes care of that field across from that one, is not over spraying into my hay field as the trees are so healthy there.
The limbs that have grown large are now breaking off, and it retards a lot of the new limbs that form now making the mighty oaks look like small shrub limbs.
This is a constant anxiety to me as I have worked hard on this place for so so long. As I pick up a small trailer load of limbs each time I mow, and look up into the trees and see what has been done. Trees are just so beautiful and those mighty Oak trees are just so majestic.

I know here you can have someone come out I think from the state department of agriculture and have them evaluate the damage and the person that done the spraying is responsible. Look for spray drift laws and see if any thing shows up for your state.

 

[Chuckie]

I know here you can have someone come out I think from the state department of agriculture and have them evaluate the damage and the person that done the spraying is responsible. Look for spray drift laws and see if any thing shows up for your state.

I will see what I can find on that. The Extension Agent is supposed to support both home owners and farmers on the spraying laws in the county, but he fell short. I will look what you are speaking of when I get finished writing. I was so thankful for the Tennessee Forestry Department for sending two of their agent out there to check things out. Here is what I just cleaned up out of one of my oak trees by the road closest to that field. See how large the limbs are some some are so big that I cannot move them by hand. Most of the limbs that fall from the trees are tiny braches that are small as a pencil. These can kind of limbs are non stop. Allenw, thank yo for that information and I will see if I can find it for the state of Tennessee.

 

[Ouachita]

I just bought a spray rig. I'm following your post closely. Don't you mess up. I'm depending on you.