Circle S Leachman 600U

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I'm fully aware. It's much the same in NC and it's a shame bulls are sold from such artificial environments to inflate numbers so buyers can think bigger is always better. If a commercial cattlemen could feed all of his calves like that bull was fed and turn a profit, it might have a chance of making sense.
There are guys that over feed and wreck them. I know a few and won't buy from them. However there are 1650 lb yearling Simmental, Charolais and Angus bulls at 14-15 months that will go on to breed for a decade if they are kept that long. They are not wrecked by over feeding.

A lot depends on your environment and how the bulls are developed.

I would argue as many bulls get wrecked by being underfed and not developed properly.

When I go to a bull sale the owner has fed them all the same. If I'm looking for a performance bull I'm not buying the 1350 lb bull I am looking at the 1500 lb plus ones.

Yearling weights are definitely going up in all breeds. A 1500 lb bull at sale time used to be massive not so many years ago. Not anymore.

Also keep in mind I'm up North in Canada. The further south you go the lower the weights. That's environment.

I don't want 65-70 lb calves at birth. Those are a big problem here in January when I calve most of them. My mature cow preference is a 90-105 lb calf at birth that gets up and goes.

Everyone has to use what works for them.
 
There are guys that over feed and wreck them. I know a few and won't buy from them. However there are 1650 lb yearling Simmental, Charolais and Angus bulls at 14-15 months that will go on to breed for a decade if they are kept that long. They are not wrecked by over feeding.

A lot depends on your environment and how the bulls are developed.

I would argue as many bulls get wrecked by being underfed and not developed properly.

When I go to a bull sale the owner has fed them all the same. If I'm looking for a performance bull I'm not buying the 1350 lb bull I am looking at the 1500 lb plus ones.

Yearling weights are definitely going up in all breeds. A 1500 lb bull at sale time used to be massive not so many years ago. Not anymore.

Also keep in mind I'm up North in Canada. The further south you go the lower the weights. That's environment.

I don't want 65-70 lb calves at birth. Those are a big problem here in January when I calve most of them. My mature cow preference is a 90-105 lb calf at birth that gets up and goes.

Everyone has to use what works for them.
If anybody buys a bull that was raised different from the way you will raise his calves, most have no idea what they are getting. If it's known that a 1500lb yearling bull will produce a much smaller bull calf at the new farm, that fat bull was only purchased to feel good - nothing to do with performance.
 
If anybody buys a bull that was raised different from the way you will raise his calves, most have no idea what they are getting. If it's known that a 1500lb yearling bull will produce a much smaller bull calf at the new farm, that fat bull was only purchased to feel good - nothing to do with performance.
When did I suggest it would be raised differently or that the bull was super fat? And your dead wrong on performance. If I go to a sale where the seller has 50 bulls or more on offer the heaviest one is typically the highest performer. Common sense you don't need numbers to see that. Yes some adjustments need to be factored in for age but more often than not they are all born in a fairly tight window and they were all raised and fed the same

I think we work in very different environments. What works for me would not for you and vice-versa.
 
Heavy weight does not necessarily mean fat. I totally agree with 99. But, again, I'm up North.
Back to 600U, my avatar is a bull I raised, Simme Valley Macho As U. He was sired by Power Drive and out of a 600U cow. He was a frame 5.4 and was 2300# as a 2 yr old.
He was a real "frame curve bender."
 
I have seen Simme's cattle and how they are raised and managed. Plus I have owned and used several 600U bull calves. The 2 things together makes me want this calf. Unless something happens to it before weaning time I will own it. This isn't the first bull I have bought before the cow was bred. And actually it isn't the first 600U bull I made an agreement on before the cow was bred. Have confidence in not just the bull bloodline but also in the breeder. I have confidence in Simme.
 
Back to 600U, my avatar is a bull I raised, Simme Valley Macho As U. He was sired by Power Drive and out of a 600U cow. He was a frame 5.4 and was 2300# as a 2 yr old.
He was a real "frame curve bender."
Story on Kenny's 600U bull calf. Some of this will be info that Kenny does not know yet. He had mentioned that he would like to find a 600U bull calf. I told him that I had 1 straw left and would try to get it in a cow. I plan the matings before breeding time, but will sometimes change that up when the cow is in the chute. We bred the cows first time and saw that we had not used the 600U straw. 45 came back in heat and we used the 600U straw. I load the gun and my daughter does the breeding. When I pushed the plunger up to get the bubble to the top of the sheath, it looked thin and runny. I did not feel good about the semen. It is old after all. But she settled on that service.
The 45 cow is the granddaughter of a 2005 cow that we purchased from the Creek's. That old cow was the most productive cow we have ever had. She retired this spring at 17 y/o. I just looked at the 45 cow's pedigree. 600U also appears 7 times in 45's pedigree if you go back 7 generations. Powerdrive appears twice. This calf has plenty of 600U and a good dose of Powerdrive and is moderate framed (5+ I guess). Time will tell how the calf develops.
 
Story on Kenny's 600U bull calf. Some of this will be info that Kenny does not know yet. He had mentioned that he would like to find a 600U bull calf. I told him that I had 1 straw left and would try to get it in a cow. I plan the matings before breeding time, but will sometimes change that up when the cow is in the chute. We bred the cows first time and saw that we had not used the 600U straw. 45 came back in heat and we used the 600U straw. I load the gun and my daughter does the breeding. When I pushed the plunger up to get the bubble to the top of the sheath, it looked thin and runny. I did not feel good about the semen. It is old after all. But she settled on that service.
The 45 cow is the granddaughter of a 2005 cow that we purchased from the Creek's. That old cow was the most productive cow we have ever had. She retired this spring at 17 y/o. I just looked at the 45 cow's pedigree. 600U also appears 7 times in 45's pedigree if you go back 7 generations. Powerdrive appears twice. This calf has plenty of 600U and a good dose of Powerdrive and is moderate framed (5+ I guess). Time will tell how the calf develops.
I can't wait until spring to see him. It's exactly what I was hoping for.
 
Yes, I saw your conversation with Kenny when he committed to buy a bull calf from you.
PD and 600U were a new black style. Until I raised our Macho (a purchased embryo), I had never...NEVER...bred to a black bull.
There weren't any blk bulls available to AI with that were better than my cows. That's a pretty uppity statement, but true. We showed Macho. Won all over with him. A judge used him for Grand at KILE, and said if we could get him to Louisville, he would show him for us. Took Div Champion.
We collected him, took him to Ohio Beef Expo and Cattle Visions and Genetic Horizon signed him up. Sold lots of semen all over US.
 
There are guys that over feed and wreck them. I know a few and won't buy from them. However there are 1650 lb yearling Simmental, Charolais and Angus bulls at 14-15 months that will go on to breed for a decade if they are kept that long. They are not wrecked by over feeding.

A lot depends on your environment and how the bulls are developed.

I would argue as many bulls get wrecked by being underfed and not developed properly.

When I go to a bull sale the owner has fed them all the same. If I'm looking for a performance bull I'm not buying the 1350 lb bull I am looking at the 1500 lb plus ones.

Yearling weights are definitely going up in all breeds. A 1500 lb bull at sale time used to be massive not so many years ago. Not anymore.

Also keep in mind I'm up North in Canada. The further south you go the lower the weights. That's environment.

I don't want 65-70 lb calves at birth. Those are a big problem here in January when I calve most of them. My mature cow preference is a 90-105 lb calf at birth that gets up and goes.

Everyone has to use what works for them.
I learned from Larry Leonhardt (pioneer Angus breeder, now deceased) that those big heavy weaning weight bulls are outliers and most of the time will not breed back to themselves. You are better off buying the middle of the group you are looking at. He said he learned the hard way. FWIW.
 
FH - yes and no. If the individual animal was extremely high gain COMPARED to both parents, then, #1 he was hand fed, #2 an outlier and may never repeat this with his offspring, or #3 the stars aligned just right and he happens to be a great gainer thru genetics and "may" pass it on.
Some calves have tremendous gains, inheriting from the sire with the cow being low growth. You can usually plan on 50/50 on his offspring. You may get his dams' genes one time and his sire's genes the next.
You are always better off with an animal that has "like" parents, so it's not hit & miss.
 

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