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Chis *Pictures* have at them

*Cowgirl*

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Downloaded pictures today.....comments welcome.....I have pretty thick skin.....

weaned heifer


show girls


Fall Pair


2yr old


Another Pair


(very dirty) Heifer from above pair


Chicken
 

*Cowgirl*

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Australian":260tnb97 said:
What do your cattle eat? Is that chook ( chicken) a Barnevelder?
In general - forages plus coop feeds
right now the brood cows have free choice hay and a little bit of hand fed the cheap coop 13% feed just to keep them coming up. The 3 show calves that we are wintering get free choice hay and are still pushing them a bit on the feed and Bovatech.
The unweaned calves get momma's milk and have access to whatever their mom is eating.

That hen is an ex 4H chick chain black sex link :)

hrbelgians - I believe that mower was sitting there when we bought the property. It's really pretty in the summer.....
 

bigbull338

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thats a goodlooking bunch of heifers an cows you have there.that heifer calf will slick the mudd off come spring.
 

DOC HARRIS

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It's a little tough to be critical on your stock, even though by your comment that you have pretty thick skin it is obvious that you are well aware that they can be improved upon in a big way.

They are generally too shallow bodied, lack thickness (from side to side), stand too close both in front and behind, and are thin boned. They are bordering on Maternal tendencies and certainly NOT on Terminal traits. It depends entirely on what your GOALS are for your herd, and whether you are going to crossbreed the heifers, and if so, what breed bull's you are planning for your cross bred herd.

It is nice to hear that "...you have a nice set of heifers there" or "good looking heifers!", but those kinds of comments merely encourage you to continue to breed the same type of genetics, instead of really looking at your cattle, and perceiving what you have, and deciding how you may improve your program, so you can change your seedstock selection, either with your bull choices, or perhaps select some stout cross-bred females and use a solid purebred bull for a crossbreeding rotation program to make gains in future years. Good seedstock selection is mandatory if one wishes to make some PROFIT with a beef herd, or, if you just want to have calves to look at, by "freshening" your cows.

I would suggest that you log onto the internet (www.Dogpile.com) and do a [SEARCH] on "Selecting Beef Cattle Seedstock", or some such title that will reward you with methods of recognizing HOW to proceed to select good, profit-making beef cattle. It is a long time process, and requires a considerable amount of study to get an image of an acceptable BEEF bull or cow for a seedstock program for your FUTURE!

DOC HARRIS
 

Jovid

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DOC HARRIS":yhk8n5z4 said:
It's a little tough to be critical on your stock, even though by your comment that you have pretty thick skin it is obvious that you are well aware that they can be improved upon in a big way.

They are generally too shallow bodied, lack thickness (from side to side), stand too close both in front and behind, and are thin boned. They are bordering on Maternal tendencies and certainly NOT on Terminal traits. It depends entirely on what your GOALS are for your herd, and whether you are going to crossbreed the heifers, and if so, what breed bull's you are planning for your cross bred herd.

It is nice to hear that "...you have a nice set of heifers there" or "good looking heifers!", but those kinds of comments merely encourage you to continue to breed the same type of genetics, instead of really looking at your cattle, and perceiving what you have, and deciding how you may improve your program, so you can change your seedstock selection, either with your bull choices, or perhaps select some stout cross-bred females and use a solid purebred bull for a crossbreeding rotation program to make gains in future years. Good seedstock selection is mandatory if one wishes to make some PROFIT with a beef herd, or, if you just want to have calves to look at, by "freshening" your cows.

I would suggest that you log onto the internet (http://www.Dogpile.com) and do a [SEARCH] on "Selecting Beef Cattle Seedstock", or some such title that will reward you with methods of recognizing HOW to proceed to select good, profit-making beef cattle. It is a long time process, and requires a considerable amount of study to get an image of an acceptable BEEF bull or cow for a seedstock program for your FUTURE!

DOC HARRIS

As expected another nice post from Doc
 

*Cowgirl*

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DOC HARRIS":38kg6hmk said:
It's a little tough to be critical on your stock, even though by your comment that you have pretty thick skin it is obvious that you are well aware that they can be improved upon in a big way.

They are generally too shallow bodied, lack thickness (from side to side), stand too close both in front and behind, and are thin boned. They are bordering on Maternal tendencies and certainly NOT on Terminal traits. It depends entirely on what your GOALS are for your herd, and whether you are going to crossbreed the heifers, and if so, what breed bull's you are planning for your cross bred herd.

It is nice to hear that "...you have a nice set of heifers there" or "good looking heifers!", but those kinds of comments merely encourage you to continue to breed the same type of genetics, instead of really looking at your cattle, and perceiving what you have, and deciding how you may improve your program, so you can change your seedstock selection, either with your bull choices, or perhaps select some stout cross-bred females and use a solid purebred bull for a crossbreeding rotation program to make gains in future years. Good seedstock selection is mandatory if one wishes to make some PROFIT with a beef herd, or, if you just want to have calves to look at, by "freshening" your cows.

I would suggest that you log onto the internet (http://www.Dogpile.com) and do a [SEARCH] on "Selecting Beef Cattle Seedstock", or some such title that will reward you with methods of recognizing HOW to proceed to select good, profit-making beef cattle. It is a long time process, and requires a considerable amount of study to get an image of an acceptable BEEF bull or cow for a seedstock program for your FUTURE!

DOC HARRIS
Doc - thank you for your post. I appreciate all input, even though I respectfully disagree with you on some points. I agree that the first heifer especially is a bit shallow; I also acknowledge that the photography is awful. The 2yr old cow is a bit narrow, but I feel that she is plenty deep and has plenty of length. The young heifer in the pair is a bit fine. That is the reason that she is not on the show path; her dam is a tremendous cow with a great production history. The thing that I most disagree on is your criticism that the cows are too maternal. I prefer a cow that may not be huge and looks like a club steer; I like a cow that is completely sound (priority number 1) and that can raise a big calf, get rebred quickly, and does not require a ton of extra feed to keep condition. I understand your points and am aware of your credentials, and I know that you are rarely questioned on these boards. But I have had the advantage of seeing the animals in person. We are not a crossbreeding operation; crossbreeding would be detrimental to our goals. We have been very happy with our calves. The best heifers are retained as either show animals or replacements. The best bulls are sold as commercial herd improvers and are usually sold quickly and easily. The calves that do not make the cut go off to the local sale barn where they almost always sell in the top price range for their contemporaries. I feel that I am mostly to blame for any misunderstanding, the photos are poor and I guess my explanation in the first post is subpar. I would like to post some better pictures, perhaps from Spring and Summer and see if you still feel the same way because I honestly value the opinions of those on this forum. While I'm not looking for anyone's approval persay, I do like to hear the opinions of others and enjoy hearing ideas and receiving advice. Thanks :cboy:
 

KMacGinley

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Doc: You left out post legged.

I find it amusing when someone asks for comments on their cattle and when someone sums them up very accurately they get defensive. :)
 

*Cowgirl*

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KMacGinley":2dj9fm13 said:
Doc: You left out post legged.

I find it amusing when someone asks for comments on their cattle and when someone sums them up very accurately they get defensive. :)
I apologize if I came across as defensive, that is not what I was going for at all.
 

Alan

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*Cowgirl*":2hjmtswc said:
KMacGinley":2hjmtswc said:
Doc: You left out post legged.

I find it amusing when someone asks for comments on their cattle and when someone sums them up very accurately they get defensive. :)
I apologize if I came across as defensive, that is not what I was going for at all.

I'll not say too much about your livestock, other than in summary I agree with Doc, they are not very deep and look fined boned.... but maybe the pics in spring will change my mind. The purpose of my response is to just say that I have found it hard not to have a bias eye when it comes to my cattle. I have come to depend on a few freinds on these boards to help me see through the mental connection I have with my herd.... meaning, I may have a cow that I think is put together well and produces a decent (do able or above avg.) calf, but I can count on some trusted freinds to "open my eyes" and say something like, she's weak in the front end, or udder, she's pinched at the...

I'm hoping to be a local seedstock producer, but I have to look beyound that first heifer born on the place, or "Annies" calf. I'm just guessing but looking at your pics and your response to Doc's post, it sounds like you maybe letting your bias eye get in the way of producing top notch seed stock. I have found that I can't have a bias eye and I have to cull hard.... and I'm still a long way from getting there.

Just another unwanted opinion,
Alan
 

blackcowz

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Not a bad set of cows. However, a Chi is a Chi. Now, no offense to your breed, but they tend to be tall, hard doing, and inherently lacking in their mid-rib. Length? Plenty. Frame? Plenty. Milk? Appears to be plenty. Balance up? Pretty good. But let's all keep in mind, Chi's main purpose was to improve weights, growth, and muscling because they are a terminal breed. I'd say in that respect, cowgirl is dead on with what she's doin'. For a breed that's s'posed to be terminal, a little more bone would be good. Like the heifer calf and show heifers. Looks like you're doin' good. If what you're doin' is workin' and there's a market, keep on with what you're doin'.

Australian, agreed.
 

Jovid

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*Cowgirl*":q69ivq20 said:
DOC HARRIS":q69ivq20 said:
It's a little tough to be critical on your stock, even though by your comment that you have pretty thick skin it is obvious that you are well aware that they can be improved upon in a big way.

They are generally too shallow bodied, lack thickness (from side to side), stand too close both in front and behind, and are thin boned. They are bordering on Maternal tendencies and certainly NOT on Terminal traits. It depends entirely on what your GOALS are for your herd, and whether you are going to crossbreed the heifers, and if so, what breed bull's you are planning for your cross bred herd.

It is nice to hear that "...you have a nice set of heifers there" or "good looking heifers!", but those kinds of comments merely encourage you to continue to breed the same type of genetics, instead of really looking at your cattle, and perceiving what you have, and deciding how you may improve your program, so you can change your seedstock selection, either with your bull choices, or perhaps select some stout cross-bred females and use a solid purebred bull for a crossbreeding rotation program to make gains in future years. Good seedstock selection is mandatory if one wishes to make some PROFIT with a beef herd, or, if you just want to have calves to look at, by "freshening" your cows.

I would suggest that you log onto the internet (http://www.Dogpile.com) and do a [SEARCH] on "Selecting Beef Cattle Seedstock", or some such title that will reward you with methods of recognizing HOW to proceed to select good, profit-making beef cattle. It is a long time process, and requires a considerable amount of study to get an image of an acceptable BEEF bull or cow for a seedstock program for your FUTURE!

DOC HARRIS
Doc - thank you for your post. I appreciate all input, even though I respectfully disagree with you on some points. I agree that the first heifer especially is a bit shallow; I also acknowledge that the photography is awful. The 2yr old cow is a bit narrow, but I feel that she is plenty deep and has plenty of length. The young heifer in the pair is a bit fine. That is the reason that she is not on the show path; her dam is a tremendous cow with a great production history. The thing that I most disagree on is your criticism that the cows are too maternal. I prefer a cow that may not be huge and looks like a club steer; I like a cow that is completely sound (priority number 1) and that can raise a big calf, get rebred quickly, and does not require a ton of extra feed to keep condition. I understand your points and am aware of your credentials, and I know that you are rarely questioned on these boards. But I have had the advantage of seeing the animals in person. We are not a crossbreeding operation; crossbreeding would be detrimental to our goals. We have been very happy with our calves. The best heifers are retained as either show animals or replacements. The best bulls are sold as commercial herd improvers and are usually sold quickly and easily. The calves that do not make the cut go off to the local sale barn where they almost always sell in the top price range for their contemporaries. I feel that I am mostly to blame for any misunderstanding, the photos are poor and I guess my explanation in the first post is subpar. I would like to post some better pictures, perhaps from Spring and Summer and see if you still feel the same way because I honestly value the opinions of those on this forum. While I'm not looking for anyone's approval persay, I do like to hear the opinions of others and enjoy hearing ideas and receiving advice. Thanks :cboy:

The difference of opinion could be that cowgirl is looking at them as "show" animals and Doc is looking at them as cows that will survive in the pasture producing pounds of beef for several years. There is a difference.
 

alacattleman

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blackcowz":3pt4lolf said:
Not a bad set of cows. However, a Chi is a Chi. Now, no offense to your breed, but they tend to be tall, hard doing, and inherently lacking in their mid-rib. Length? Plenty. Frame? Plenty. Milk? Appears to be plenty. Balance up? Pretty good. But let's all keep in mind, Chi's main purpose was to improve weights, growth, and muscling because they are a terminal breed. I'd say in that respect, cowgirl is dead on with what she's doin'. For a breed that's s'posed to be terminal, a little more bone would be good. Like the heifer calf and show heifers. Looks like you're doin' good. If what you're doin' is workin' and there's a market, keep on with what you're doin'.

Australian, agreed.
if their a terminal breed how come they keep reproducing , where does the seed stock come from
 

blackcowz

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Come on, I was simply pointing out that they might lack those easy doin' maternal traits due to their breed type. People like cowgirl have decided to breed 'em and give commercial cattlemen an avenue through which to purchase bulls to improve the weight gain and growth of their calves.
 

*Cowgirl*

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Here are a couple of pictures from Spring/Summer 2008 (maybe a couple from early fall 07 - not positive b/c they aren't dated? )......

except for this one which was from a little while ago at the tail end of calving season.


dam of heifer in first set


heifer (not in 1st set, but has grown out wonderfully)


The next three are from this summer just a couple cows and a calf. (grass is practically nonexistant b/c of drought)





Still open to questions/comments. Still not the best photography, but.....
EDIT: fix label
 
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