~~**Charolais**~~

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Cattle Rack Rancher":cfdmw4v3 said:
Dun,
You gotta get out more. Everybody says everything is bigger in Texas but the cows are definitely bigger in Canada.

Now lets not get to Texas bashing, we know every one can't be from Texas. I have been working hard for years to move my herd to a moderate frame. I can run more cattle and the calves 500 pound range.
They bring just as much at the sale barn $$$$.
 
Campground
If you read my earlier posts you'll know that I agree with you 100%. The funny looking thing about those big cattle is that they look real good when your driving down the road and looking into the field. It isn't until you are actually on the ground looking at these monsters that you think, man those are huge cows. I was going to buy a few cows off the neighbor last year. I figured he had the same type of land and the same type of management system as me, so they should be a good fit. When I actually went to look at them, the little ones would be over 1600 lbs, and the bigger ones would have been around 2200 lbs. So, they look good from far, but far from good.
 
It's all a matter of personal preference.

I use Charlois and Simmental bulls on my commercial cows (who are a pretty mixed bunch - angus((red and black)), simmental, gelbvieh, salers, hereford, charlois, pinzgaur, even one little longhorn cross.
What I like about using the Charlois bulls are:

Makes for a fairly uniform bunch of calves - mostly tans, some greys (and with the exception of about one rat tail a year, the buyers here haven't been discounting the greys here).

Good frame.

Vigourous (but like with every breed, you get what you pay for.. the more dedicated purebred breeders will band male calves that show a lack of vigour at birth - and God bless 'em).

Virilty - compared with my neighbour's Limousin bulls (who I've seen lazing about in the shade chewing their cud, while my Char bulls are busy covering the cows a hundred feet away - we run cattle in the same section of a big community pasture, but we like to turn our bulls out at home a month before we hit the grazing reserve). Gotta love that large scrotal circumference...seems to equate with strong libido.

Yes, we do tend to have big birthweights (average this spring is around 110 lbs - the largest one was 130lbs, she pushed him out no problem, he got up and sucked within 30 minutes, life is great!),
the cows (which are also fair sized - average 1600lbs) don't seem to have much trouble delivering them - the calves are long and just kind of slide right on out (with the exception of a leg or head back, which can happen with any delivery, no matter who sires the calf), but we also have big weaning weights in the fall (and seeing as we still get paid by the pound, it's something I like).

The hardest pull I've ever done was on a cow that had a little 90 lb red angus sired bull calf (he had a head like a bowling ball, short necked and drummy built)...guess it was like delivering a pail of oil compared to a delivering a salmon. Shape of calf does seem to be a difference.

Guess the nice part about having so many different breeds is that it gives everyone the ability to choose what works best for them. If you find something that works for you, then that's all that really matters. I don't think that any particular breed is the "best" for everyone. Like I said, it's all a matter of personal preference.
Have a good one.
 
I keep charolais and brangus cows and usually run a horned herford bull with them. I never have a problem calving and my charolais cross calves usually bring a little more per head than the black calves, but they are usually a litle heavier too. My brangus probably eat a litle less, but when they all run together I can't really tell...I hear a lot of bad about charolais, but I haven't found it to be true...
 
I have been raising Charolais for 15 years. Seldom have had to pull a calf. It is true that the American Charolais Assoc. has dropped the ball as far as promoting the breed(unlike the Angus Assoc) Still I like the breed, and calves I sell in the Fall are weight gaining machines. The Canadian Charolais Assoc.is much better at promoting the breed.
 
Campground Cattle":34vkf7gd said:
Anonymous":34vkf7gd said:
Just like with Herefords, eared cattle, etc.--- at some markets you take a more severe hit than at others, so you really need to raise what your market most readily pays for, within the constraints of your environment, management style, etc. Obviously one real basic item to remember about the Charolais cross terminal calves, or any calves for that matter, is that you can't just look at the price per pound that you get or the discount per pound you get hit with. Consider total pounds sold times price per pound! It's only a thought, but I'd almost bet that on any given forage base the heaviest calves would probably be Charolais sired terminal crosses (or possibly something by a Fleck or Gelbvieh). Being an absentee owner I've never had quite enough "courage" to use a Charolais bull. But I've been real tempted a few times when I found some that had the kind of front shoulders that made me feel a little more comfortable than with most of the breed. Arnold Ziffle



Another thought --- recently I was sniffing around on the website for one of the Canadian semen outfits while looking at Fleckvieh Simmentals and just happened to review some of their Charolais offerings. One thing that I sure DON'T need is anything like those 3,300+ pounders up in Canada. Do you folks way up north ever use that size of a bull in a commercial herd and can they (and correspondingly large cows) really work acceptably for you? Sure need to lay in a good supply for monsters like that don't you?

I have nothing against Charolais,heck I really like the Brahmans. I believe that all breeds bring something to the table. It's about $$$$. at the sale barn.

I agree, it is about dollars, but not entirely at the sale barn. The cost of raising them and keeping them healthly is also about dollars. Sometime the so called 'hit' at the barn is offset by the lower cost of production of some breeds or crosses. Just a though.
 
DRB":3ms147ui said:
I keep charolais and brangus cows and usually run a horned herford bull with them. I never have a problem calving and my charolais cross calves usually bring a little more per head than the black calves, but they are usually a litle heavier too. My brangus probably eat a litle less, but when they all run together I can't really tell...I hear a lot of bad about charolais, but I haven't found it to be true...
if you are interested in color you can use Limousin bulls and you will get mostly Red calves and with the same or better benefits than with Charolaise. I raise both Charolaise and Limousin in the registered basis and I'm happy with both but in my commercials I prefer Limos even I have use Limo-Char cross bull with Brangus influence cows
 
I'm a writer looking for a little information about Charolais, hoping you can help. Why were Charolais introduced to ranches, especially in Texas? (That's where the story I'm writing is based.) Obviously the ranchers were looking to improve their breed in some way, what was it? Were they considered to be successful? (though judging from this bulletin board that is still being debated!) And when were they first introduced? I remember seeing a small herd in the '70s in West Texas and being amazed at their color. I'd never seen anything like them.
Thanks for any help you can give.
 
Introduction to the United States

Soon after the First World War, a young Mexican industrialist of French name and ancestry, Jean Pugibet, brought some of the French cattle to his ranch in Mexico. He had seen the Charolais cattle during World War I while serving as a French army volunteer and was impressed by their appearance and productivity. He arranged for a shipment of two bulls and 10 heifers to Mexico in 1930. Two later shipments in 1931 and 1937 increased the total number to 37 - eight bulls and 29 females. Not long after the last shipment, Pugibet died and no further imports were attempted.

The first Charolais to come into the United States from Mexico are believed to be two bulls, Neptune and Ortolan, which were purchased from Pugibet by the King Ranch in Texas and imported in June 1936. Later imports of bulls were owned by some of the early "pioneers" in the industry: Harl Thomas, Fred W. Turner, C.M. "Pete" Frost, M.G. Michaelis Sr., and I.G. "Cap" Yates, all of Texas, J.A. "Palley" Lawton of Louisiana, and others.

In the mid-1940s an outbreak of Hoof and Mouth Disease occurred in Mexico. As a result, a treaty between the United States, Canada and Mexico set up a permanent quarantine against cattle coming into any of these countries from Europe or any country in which Hoof and Mouth Disease was known to exist. This barred any further importation of French Charolais on this continent until 1965 when Canada opened the import doors via rigid quarantine both in France and in Canada.

Development in the United States

Until the mid-1960s, all the Charolais in Mexico, the United States and Canada were descendants of this initial Pugibet herd. Due to the limited number of original animals and the import restrictions which were in place, they have been crossed on other cattle in an upgrading process. Because of the use of the upgrading process few of the Charolais cattle currently found in the United State are of pure French breeding. With the lightening of the import restrictions in Canada in the mid-1960's fullblood Charolais were again imported from France. This allowed for the importation of new bloodlines from France. This meant new genetic material for tightly-bred Charolais pedigrees of the time. Several breeding herds were estabilished in Canada, as well as the island of Eleuthera, in the Bahamas. Japan, England and Ireland also imported purebred Charolais directly from France. Offspring from these herds were later imported to the United States.

American Charolais are referred to as "purebred" or "recorded" depending upon the percentage of known Charolais blood. The term purebred is used on those that carry 31/32 or more Charolais blood and those less than 31/32 can be referred to as recorded. People wishing to develop a herd will still find it possible to upgrade, using purebred Charolais sires, a foundation cow herd of one of the other cattle breeds or their crosses. Five generations of purebred bulls are required to produced the 31/32 level for classification as "purebred". Sires used in the grading-up process must be registered. The offspring from the first as well as succeeding generations must be registered as "recorded" until they reach the 31/32 level at which time they are referred to as purebred.
It has been said that no other breed has impacted the North American beef industry so significantly as the introduction of Charolais. The Charolais came into widespread use in the United States cattle industry at a time when producers were seeking larger framed, heavier cattle than the traditional British breeds. The increased use on the range indicates that the cows have performed well under a variety of environmental conditions. Their ability to walk, graze aggressively in warm weather, withstand reasonable cold, and raise heavy calves has drawn special praise from many that have them. Bulls have developed a well-earned reputation when used in grading-up for herd improvement. This is especially noted when they are used in herds where size and ruggedness are lacking

Charolais are white or creamy white in color, but the skin carries appreciable pigmentation. The hair coat is usually short in summer but thickens and lengthens in cold weather. Charolais is a naturally horned beef animal. But through the breeding-up program, where naturally polled breeds were sometimes used as foundation animals, polled Charolais have emerged as an important part of the breed. Charolais cattle are large with mature bulls weighing from 2,000 to well over 2,500 pounds and cows weigh from 1,250 to over 2,000 pounds
 
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