Charolais x beefmaster

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Anonymous

I have a small herd of beefmaster cows that run with a beefmaster bull called Son of Levi. Each year I get a nice grouping of sturdy calves which I sale when they get 400 - 500 lbs. I was thinking of switching my bull to a Charolais bull. I'm looking for some information about this kind of cross-breeding. Any advice would be appreciated.
 

markfrenzel

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Charolais bulls do cross excellently with beefmaster cows but I think what you really need is just to get a new beefmaster bull. Change up your genetics and try something different. The same bull over and over is not the answer all the time. But, if you are dead set on changing breeds, the Charolais would defintely be the best bet on beefmaster mommas. Just watch your birthweights on the bull. -Mark
 
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Anonymous

What I would like is to produce a better quality calf.
Currently, market price for my calves has been in the middle to upper good range. I want to move into the choice or prime range and I'm not sure I can do this with a Charolais x Beefmaster cross. What would you advise?
 

dun

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Anonymous":1yhlcjo4 said:
What I would like is to produce a better quality calf.
Currently, market price for my calves has been in the middle to upper good range. I want to move into the choice or prime range and I'm not sure I can do this with a Charolais x Beefmaster cross. What would you advise?

If you mean quality grade of choice or prime, go with Angus

dun
 

markfrenzel

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Anonymous":3u9tic4k said:
What I would like is to produce a better quality calf.
Currently, market price for my calves has been in the middle to upper good range. I want to move into the choice or prime range and I'm not sure I can do this with a Charolais x Beefmaster cross. What would you advise?

Your goal for good calves can definitely be attained with the Charolais/Beefmaster cross. Its excellent. But, ill tell u too, watch your birthweights on the Charolais and dont use them on to small of cows.
-Good Luck!
 

Beefy

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if you arent going to use a good beefmaster,i would go with a charolais or something black like a black simmental or SimAng or LimAng. if you can get one that is 50% angus, 50% what ever continental breed you choose, that would be best.
 

la4angus

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Anonymous":1l8mzfes said:
What I would like is to produce a better quality calf.
Currently, market price for my calves has been in the middle to upper good range. I want to move into the choice or prime range and I'm not sure I can do this with a Charolais x Beefmaster cross. What would you advise?
If you want to move into the choice grade, go with Angus. At least that way you will have a chance; Charolais has a hard time grading choice without the Brahman influence.
 

Arnold Ziffle

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I agree with Lloyd --- I think you'll have a hard time hitting Choice with a Beefmaster/Charolais cross. If you decide to go with a Beefmaster bull and want to possibly improve your chances of hitting Choice try to get a son of L Bar 5502 ( or consider AI'ing with 5502 ).
 
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Anonymous

If I am understanding you, Charolais/Beefmaster cross could produce a better quality calf that may fetch a choice price. What about marbling? Doesn't that factor into the breed and would you be able to tell from the calf? How does that work?
 

Arnold Ziffle

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Well I guess I'll take a stab at this:

Guest --- typically a Charolais sired calf out of good milking Beefmaster cows will give you a real nice, stocky calf that will grow real well --- but don't expect it to sell for the price per pound that a distinctly Angus (or other English) calf sells for. But you probably can expect to make up for some of the price per pound difference by generally (not always!) having more pounds of calf to sell.

And back to your earlier questions: Let's say for sake of discussion that you have some quality calves that are clearly not predominantly Angus, but that those calves will in fact grade Choice --- you need to understand that in almost every case if you sell those calves at a local sale barn you really won't get much, if any, credit for the higher quality grade carcass possibilities of your calves. I think that just about the only way for a raiser of high quality, but non-English calves to get properly compensated, if his calves really have carcass qualities that are better than what the market normally expects from that type of calf, is via retained ownership. There are actually quite a few Gerts and Beefmaster calves that will grade Choice but unless they are owned essentially all the way to the killing floor by the rancher the benefit of the higher quality grade is generally going to go to somebody else. That's one of the reasons why some of the big outfits in south Texas not only retain ownership but even own their own feedlots.
 
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Anonymous

Arnold, I want to thank you for your reply. I'm not sure where to go from here. My ranch is in Benevides, Tx and I take my calves to the local cattle transporter just outside of town. If I'm not mistake, the cattle is taken to Big Springs for auction. How could I possibly get the cattle from ranch to killing floor? For a small operation like mine, 15 calves a year, the expenses may outway the profit. Where is the nearest killing floor? If the calves are labled CharolaisxBeefmaster or if I go with an Angus or BrangusxBeefmaster when delivered to the transporter, wouldn't that automatically get a choice price? This is all very informative and I appreciate all the information I'm getting. You guys are awesome.
 
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Anonymous

Most of the people on this board recognize that the term "choice" represents a USDA quality grade for beef based on carcass merits. If you are using it to mean the "best" price, stating it that way would relieve some confusion for you. As everyone has stated, the only way to get the true choice or prime price that you are talking about, is after your cattle reach slaughter weight and the hide is off. And you wouldn't want to take either of those prices for your lightweight calves, if you are in fact selling them as calves or even yearlings.
 

Arnold Ziffle

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Guest – the previous post by Texan is correct, in that when I earlier referred to Choice I meant the USDA quality grade “Choice”; and no, you won’t realize any special pricing advantage when turning those calves over to a transporter.

I sincerely hope that the following comments do not sound condescending, because they are certainly not meant to be, but: For the size of your operation I think that your best bet is to get a quality bull of whatever breed you choose and try to raise the best calves you can and sell them at a local sale barn when they are in the 500 to 600 pound range, or perhaps join some sort of marketing alliance if the folks in your area have one. When referring to owning them all the way through to the killing floor I really meant something on the order of participating in the Ranch to Rail program but I erroneously assumed you had greater numbers of calves. Under the Ranch to Rail concept (and other states have similar programs, just named differently) essentially the rancher raises the calves until they are of the size where they are ready to go to a feedlot --- but he continues to own them all through the feeding process as well. As you can imagine, there are additional economic risks associated with the continued ownership in addition to the hoped-for economic benefits. Currently, when you sell your calves you are “off the hook” for their subsequent health problems, price changes for feed, the vagaries of the weather while the calves are on feed, the actual price of finished fed cattle, etc. --- not so if you retain ownership! For those and other reasons, if you even think about retained ownership it seems to me that you have to have a good understanding of hedging and management of financial risks. Ultrasounding is a great tool, but probably only after the passage of time and accumulation of good carcass information from killed calves will you know if your calves really are able to hit the higher quality grades after being on feed. Sometimes you lose money via retained ownership, especially if the calves aren’t really as good as you think they are. And with most Beefmasters or Charolais you are going to have a hard time hitting Choice in a NORMAL feeding time frame. Essentially there’s a lot for you to get educated on, but at the end of the day, at your present size you probably have only a very few head of similar sized, same sex calves at any one point in time and I rather doubt that you could find any feedlot program that would take such small groups. At any rate, even if only for intellectual curiosity, you may want to contact the folks over at A & M and get some written infor about the ranch to rail program.

This has probably gotten way too wordy and I hope that what I have written is pretty much on the mark. I would also note that it’s all strictly just IMHO. I’m just a small time guy with what I consider to be a rather "dinky" operation myself, never having had more than 39 mama cows at any one time, but I don’t need to get any bigger to enjoy it at the present time. Good luck to you.

One last note, if you are interested in Charolais, you might visit the Thomas Charolais ranch down in the valley --- for Simbrah maybe lookup Carlos Guerra at La Muneca ranch and there should be lots of Beefmaster raisers down in your neck of the woods but you probably can’t go too far wrong if you get a Lasater line bull
 

Arnold Ziffle

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Guest -- something else just came to mind about what you posted. You may want to double check and see if your calves are really being transported to Big Spring. Your place is in Benevides, that's in Duval county, right? Well, unlesss my geography is way off, Big Spring is located out in pretty far west Texas in Howard County --- I'm making a wild guess that the two towns are at least 300 to 400 miles apart. IMHO that's WAY too far to be transporting a few calves, especially if it's during hot weather and especially considering all the barns available in south Texas. Think of the shrink you might have under those conditions. How far is the Nixon livestock auction from you?
 

txag

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Arnold Ziffle":1qqy8dhl said:
Guest -- something else just came to mind about what you posted. You may want to double check and see if your calves are really being transported to Big Spring. Your place is in Benevides, that's in Duval county, right? Well, unlesss my geography is way off, Big Spring is located out in pretty far west Texas in Howard County --- I'm making a wild guess that the two towns are at least 300 to 400 miles apart. IMHO that's WAY too far to be transporting a few calves, especially if it's during hot weather and especially considering all the barns available in south Texas. Think of the shrink you might have under those conditions. How far is the Nixon livestock auction from you?

beeville would be closer than nixon to benavides.
 
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Anonymous

Sorry guys, I was wrong about Big Spring, it's Three Rivers. In any case, you have all been very helpful in educating me about charolaisxbeefmaster cross. I am so pleased with the advice you have given me and continue to look for more information before I make a decision. My current herd is made up of very hardy cattle. I am away from the ranch a significant amount of time so any bull I choose will have to produce calves that do not have to be pulled. I lost one of my best cows during calfing last year, the first time ever, so it makes no sense in getting a bull that will produce large calves at birth. Dont want to lose any more cows during calfing..

If there is any more information out there please keep it coming.
 
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Anonymous

i have a herd of murray grey cows crossed with a hereford bull i was thinking of switching bulls but because murray grey cows are small i was wounder what bull to change to. could u give me some information on which breed of bull would be best to buy?
 

Beefy

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Guest,
if you are concerned about calving ease and you are not on call to check on the cows regularly, honestly a charolais bull would probably not be the best choice. I would suggest you look into a black simmental or a simang.
My avatar is currently a beefmasterxcharolais cow.
 

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