Char Cross Cow Value?

[brimmer X]

Have I screwed up? I just bought a registered angus bull to put with 25 char. & char. cross cows.
Being a newbie, I probably did.

I don't think so. The smokey calves always sell pretty good in these parts. I think you will do fine. A dark muzzel and hooves seem to interest buyers at the sale barn.

 

[VLS_GUY]

Hondac,

Red Angus bulls are used on Char cross cows all the time. No reason why a Black bull can't work as well. Generally since the Char cross cows are bigger you can use a higher performance Angus bull than you would use normally.

 

[Hondac]

Thanks for the insight. I hope to eventually have all angus or balancer herd.

 

[Jake]

Hondac,

Red Angus bulls are used on Char cross cows all the time. No reason why a Black bull can't work as well. Generally since the Char cross cows are bigger you can use a higher performance Angus bull than you would use normally.

Only issue is that the chance of rats with a black bull.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Hondac,

Red Angus bulls are used on Char cross cows all the time. No reason why a Black bull can't work as well. Generally since the Char cross cows are bigger you can use a higher performance Angus bull than you would use normally.

Only issue is that the chance of rats with a black bull.

and a short curley hair coat

 

[VLS_GUY]

Rat Tails are associated with the diluter gene in Simmental and Chianina breeds. The biggest problem this guy will face is that the Charolais diluter gene will persist in the herd and make his calf cow non uniform.

 

[KNERSIE]

Rat Tails are associated with the diluter gene in Simmental and Chianina breeds. The biggest problem this guy will face is that the Charolais diluter gene will persist in the herd and make his calf cow non uniform.

mmmm...... not so sure that is a fact.....

unless I have read it wrongly?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Rat Tails are associated with the diluter gene in Simmental and Chianina breeds. The biggest problem this guy will face is that the Charolais diluter gene will persist in the herd and make his calf cow non uniform.

and the occasional short curley hair coat

 

[Jake]

The diluter is in Simmental, Charlois, and Gelbvieh to my knowledge. Never herd of Chi having the gene.

 

[VLS_GUY]

The Simmentals you have to worry about that are diluter/rat tail carriers seems to be the pale colored Pie Rouge cattle. The Fullblood Chi bull that showed the rat tailed trait was on some Pie Rouge Angus cross mouse colored cows -about a quarter of the calves rat tailed. Bred the cows back to a Fleck bull with a Hereford clean up no problems. The Simmental breed has largely goten rid of this problem by now.
The problem as described recently for the Chianina breed in Italy: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17009813
A good power point that covers these defects for dogs and cattle: is on line but I had problems getting the address.

 

[ANAZAZI]

te="ALACOWMAN"]

Hondac,

Red Angus bulls are used on Char cross cows all the time. No reason why a Black bull can't work as well. Generally since the Char cross cows are bigger you can use a higher performance Angus bull than you would use normally.

Only issue is that the chance of rats with a black bull.

and a short curley hair coat[/quote]
:nod: :lol2: :lol2: :banana: :tiphat:

 

[Post Oak]

Cow Pollinator,

Their are plenty of calving ease Charolais bulls that will do exactly what you want them to do. In fact you can use several different bloodlines to do what you want with out making you cows giants or sacrificing fleshing ability. If you are breeding cows you can use a bull with a birth weight EPD of around +1.0 or less with confidence.
In fact Full french Breeding is being used to increase muscling and fleshing ability in many herds today with out outragous birth weights.
Here is a Bulls that i think might work for you: http://www.semex.com/di/beef/i?lang=en& ... =U&view=71

What birthweight epd would you recommend for a Charolais bull that could be used on 1/2 Beefmaster 1/2 Hereford and 3/4 Beefmaster 1/4 Hereford heifers that are 18 to 21 months old?

 

[VLS_GUY]

Whoa!
I have had negative Birth weight EPD bulls used on well grown out high performing Hereford and Hereford red/black baldy heifers that were well manged by people that calved out a few hundred head yearly with no problems. We did not recommend they do this but they used the bull the previous year and felt we was easier calving than the Red Angus bull they bought for the purpose. This bull had a Birth weight EPD of -2.9.
Before we like to see a bull we sell used on non Charolais cross heifers we want to know more about the operations lay out, their management, how the cattle will be watched at calving time, the size the females will be at calving and history of any calving problems in the herd. Only if we get positive vibes on all these point will we tell someone it is OK.
Generally when you go to a bull sale the bulls by definition are unproven. A bull with a -4.0 Birth Weight EPD may turn out to be much less easy calving than he seemed. Conversely a yearling bull with a positive +1.0 EPD may prove to be a sleep easy bull in the end. This is why before I do an experiment I would want to see at least one calf crop off your COWS to see just how easy calving he really is. It is this reason why well proven AI bulls like Oakdale Duke (-3.7 EPD) or Big Ben (-5.2 EPD) are preferred for doing what you are proposing. Remember you have to know the calving history of the herd. A negative birth weight EPD isn't everything here.
If you have to buy a bull go to your local Charolais breeders and tell him what you want to do and gauge their reaction. You will learn plenty from them on what works in your area and management.
I would recommend considering a calving simangus or balancer here. Why? You have no Angus in these cattle meaning you will get a dose of hybrid vigor from the Angus and continental influence both. Plus I think calving ease bulls should be easier to come by in these breeds, as Charolais bulls are becoming expen$ive.

 

[Post Oak]

Whoa!
I have had negative Birth weight EPD bulls used on well grown out high performing Hereford and Hereford red/black baldy heifers that were well manged by people that calved out a few hundred head yearly with no problems. We did not recommend they do this but they used the bull the previous year and felt we was easier calving than the Red Angus bull they bought for the purpose. This bull had a Birth weight EPD of -2.9.
Before we like to see a bull we sell used on non Charolais cross heifers we want to know more about the operations lay out, their management, how the cattle will be watched at calving time, the size the females will be at calving and history of any calving problems in the herd. Only if we get positive vibes on all these point will we tell someone it is OK.
Generally when you go to a bull sale the bulls by definition are unproven. A bull with a -4.0 Birth Weight EPD may turn out to be much less easy calving than he seemed. Conversely a yearling bull with a positive +1.0 EPD may prove to be a sleep easy bull in the end. This is why before I do an experiment I would want to see at least one calf crop off your COWS to see just how easy calving he really is. It is this reason why well proven AI bulls like Oakdale Duke (-3.7 EPD) or Big Ben (-5.2 EPD) are preferred for doing what you are proposing. Remember you have to know the calving history of the herd. A negative birth weight EPD isn't everything here.
If you have to buy a bull go to your local Charolais breeders and tell him what you want to do and gauge their reaction. You will learn plenty from them on what works in your area and management.
I would recommend considering a calving simangus or balancer here. Why? You have no Angus in these cattle meaning you will get a dose of hybrid vigor from the Angus and continental influence both. Plus I think calving ease bulls should be easier to come by in these breeds, as Charolais bulls are becoming expen$ive.

Thanks, I have awhile to think this out. I definitely will talk to local Charolais breeders Tommy Wilks and Mr. Horace Porter before I do anything.

 

[midtncattle]

Really like my gert x char calves so far.

 

[skeeter swatter]

Stocker Steve; What kind of bull do you have? I hope you aren`t going to buy one to breed 3 skinny cows and one fat one. GOOD char cross are good mamas. I would breed to red angus or back to char.

 

[glacierridge]

We have several very nice results from Char cross cows.
Just sayin...

 

[Nesikep]

Personally, I only see the diluter gene as a problem when you have a combination of black with other colours, if you stay on the red side, you can get some great looking animals... My red shorthorn cows crossed to a tan gelbveih have a fantastic colour, the longer hair seems a bit darker than the undercoat (and their underpants). The lightest coloured calves were tan, and the darkest were a deep red.

 

[dyates]

I have several char x cows and they are some of the best cows I have. Some have made it to 15 before being culled. Most of the ones I have culled have been for blown udders or mastitis from too much milk. I have had a few rattails but haven't noticed much dockage. I have yet to see a scientific reason as to why I should; performance certainly doesn't seem to have anything to do with it. Just another excuse, I guess.