greenwillowherefords
Well-known member
CHB requires 50% Hereford, and 100% English genetics.
Certified Hereford Beef Requirements
- Thread starter greenwillowherefords
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ga. prime
Well-known member
It's interesting that beef can be labeled CHB and CAB simultaneously.
greenwillowherefords
Well-known member
ga. prime":p686jsrh said:
Yes, as a black-baldie can qualify for either one. However, as you will find by looking at the CAB thread, not all CAB would qualify as CHB because not all CAB is english. (Of course there is the obvious that the CHB has to be 50% Hereford, so the straight blacks need not apply.) I just think the CHB has more truth in advertising because of the requirement for Hereford genetics.
ga. prime
Well-known member
I'm with you on the truth in advertising, greenwiilow. You said not all CAB would qualify as CHB, which is of course true. It can also be said that not all CHB would be eligible for CAB labeling because CHB doen't have to be black hided.
greenwillowherefords":1njt0de0 said:
Well, actually it doesn't. I'm not trying to beat you up here, GWH. But There are the two ways to qualify as CHB:
They can qualify by Phenotype, which means they look like a Hereford. Or by Genotype which requires a signed statement by the breeder that they are at least 50% Hereford. I've posted a link below so you can read the entire requirements if you want.
"Phenotype
Cattle offered for AHA qualification must have a predominately (51%) white face. Cattle must exhibit white markings over the jaw, forehead and muzzle. Cattle must have white markings on all three locations or they are unacceptable."
"Genotype
In lieu of the aforementioned phenotypic requirements regarding color and traditional Hereford markings, qualification can be based upon a signed affidavit provided by the cattle breeder that verifies the cattle are at least genetically ½ Hereford breeding and 100% British bred (Angus, Red Angus, Shorthorn, Hereford, or South Devon)."
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/sc ... laspec.htm
greenwillowherefords
Well-known member
Frankie":318pusus said:
It is easier to distinguish a Hereford phenotypically. Surely you would agree that there is only one other breed that can produce white markings on the face that look similar to a Hereford in a crossbreeding situation, while again at least six or seven can be solid black in the case of CAB identifications. I still say there are stricter guidelines for the genetic makeup of CHB. A died in the wool Angus breeder told me of his respect for the CHB program for this reason. These folks are Angus fanatics, and have won many shows with their cattle. But the grandson went to OSU, and while there did some research, and did something that all my arguing could never do: gained some respect for Herefords from his grandpa. They even purchased some from the Whitehead dispersal.
greenwillowherefords":1mbj4ypc said:
I'm not disagreeing at all. I'm simply pointing out that the requirements for CHB are not at least 50% Hereford and 100% English genetics as you stated. Cattle can qualify for CHB, just like CAB, by looks alone. While you and I think we know a Hereford, there are people on this board who have a different opinion as to what a "Hereford" looks like. Is there a report saying what percentage of cattle actually qualify as CHB? I'd be interested in that, though the requirements aren't the same as CAB.
rwtherefords
Well-known member
Personally, I think if people knew that CAB really only means certified "choice" with a black hide, they would feel that they are being douped. I know alot of people (myself included) who thought certified angus meant just that, certified angus! Language is supposed to have meaning and those playing games with words, when found out, usually have to deal with a customer backlash of some sort.
I certainly think CAB is a joke now. I have 2 commercial heifers, each bred from angus/holstein cows with the same 3/4 beefmaster 1/4 red angus bull. One has a black hide and one has a red hide. It's silly to think that either of them could be certified angus! It's even sillier to think that if they both graded choice, that only the black hided one would be certified angus.
I believe that certified angus or certified hereford should be 100% angus or hereford and choice. Anything less shouldn't be certified! They're cross-breeds at best, or muts.
The folks I work with will certainly know what CAB and CHB really is by the end of the next work week!
I certainly think CAB is a joke now. I have 2 commercial heifers, each bred from angus/holstein cows with the same 3/4 beefmaster 1/4 red angus bull. One has a black hide and one has a red hide. It's silly to think that either of them could be certified angus! It's even sillier to think that if they both graded choice, that only the black hided one would be certified angus.
I believe that certified angus or certified hereford should be 100% angus or hereford and choice. Anything less shouldn't be certified! They're cross-breeds at best, or muts.
The folks I work with will certainly know what CAB and CHB really is by the end of the next work week!
Tod Dague
Well-known member
rwtherefords":14uslxee said:
I think they will probably continue to eat them because they taste oh so good.
rwtherefords
Well-known member
Tod, obviously you missed the point! Based on that approach, you should be able to market horse meat as certified angus as long as it met "choice" standards and taste oh so good.
These programs appear designed to mislead the consumer. Angus means angus and hereford means hereford, not cross-breeds or choice black muts. If the programs were called Choice Black Beef (CBB) or Hereford Influenced Beef (HIB) that would be different. They would still taste "Oh so good" but there wouldn't be any hint of false advertising or misrepresentation.
Tod Dague
Well-known member
rwtherefords":1zeusomm said:
Tod, obviously you missed the point! Based on that approach, you should be able to market horse meat as certified angus as long as it met "choice" standards and taste oh so good.
These programs appear designed to mislead the consumer. Angus means angus and hereford means hereford, not cross-breeds or choice black muts. If the programs were called Choice Black Beef (CBB) or Hereford Influenced Beef (HIB) that would be different. They would still taste "Oh so good" but there wouldn't be any hint of false advertising or misrepresentation.
I repeat OH SO GOOD. The point is most people don't care. If people cared the stuff would have hit the fan long ago. People a love scandal. To most people that I have talked to find it to be an interesting bit of trivia and nothing more and don't feel cheated and victimized. If anyone should be mad about the CAB requirements it should be me. I raise Angus but they will never qualify for CAB because they are Red Angus. So pull your underwear out of your crack and enjoy a quality steak.
Most non-agricultural types wouldn't know an Angus from an aardvark. Ok, maybe that could tell the difference between an aarvarkm but probably not a Holstein or a Simmenthal, or.............
The point is that CAB is a quality program. People have come to expect better quality from CAB so anything that has the angus part of cab is probably a good thing to eat. Perception being reality in this case.
Our Red Angus calves frequently qualify for CAB except the for color. SO what, I knew going in that they wouldn't.
dun
The point is that CAB is a quality program. People have come to expect better quality from CAB so anything that has the angus part of cab is probably a good thing to eat. Perception being reality in this case.
Our Red Angus calves frequently qualify for CAB except the for color. SO what, I knew going in that they wouldn't.
dun
Sylvanglades
Active member
Angus gets all the notoriety and attention by the CAB label. Doesn't that hurt the other breeds by insinuating that only Angus are CAB quality, when in actuality there are a lot of breeds that qualify and are sold as CAB. I think certified beef is a good thing but I wish that all the cattle that are sold as CAB had the recognition which that particular breed deserves. By lumping all choice meats (Angus and non-Angus) into CAB, there is no way to know which breed is really putting out the most consistant choice cuts. I guess it's just politics and big money so noone will ever really know the true facts. But what do I know, I'm just a newcomer to raising beef. I guess I'll just stick to raising what I'm comfortable with and try to not let the loss of revenue and lack of breed recognition that the CAB system might be costing me get to me.
Sylvanglades":3h63b6dd said:
Yes, Angus gets all the notoriety. The American Angus Association almost killed the CAB program more than once because it was costing so much to promote and manage. It took a lot of years for CAB to actually catch on and become profitable. CHB became profitable much quicker. As for hurting other breeds, I don't see how. Many breeds have added Angus to their genetics and can reap the CAB rewards. Hereford breeders can cross with Angus and sell either as CHB or CAB. Red Angus are popular for Excel's Sterling Silver line of beef.
Every animal that certifies as CAB has to be 51% black. Angus is the only naturally beef black breed. Thus, every animal that qualifies as CAB has some Angus in it. CAB keeps track of animals of known parentage and has found that animals known to be sired by Angus bulls meet the CAB spec requirements at a considerably higher rate than generic black cattle. So we do know which breed is more likely to produce CAB cattle.
No, it's not about politics and big money, at least in the Angus business. It's about producing a quality eating experience for consumers. The Angus Association has some ongoing programs to identify the true value of Angus cattle. They've come up with the AnguSource tag that a producer can put in the ear of a calf to show he's Angus and we're finding buyers will pay more for those calves than generic black calves. Red Angus has had a similar program for quite a while. Gelbveih may have something similar, too.
The CAB system isn't costing you anything. The CAB premium is available to whoever wants to use Angus genetics. If you choose not to participate, that's your choice. None of us on this board are likely to get rich raising cattle, so, IMO, we should all raise what we like. But I also think people shouldn't complain when similar Angus sell for more than their chosen breed.
SF
Well-known member
Time to throw my 2 cents in here.
The average beef consumer may not know the difference between a hereford, an angus, or a brahma, but they certainly know about CAB, CHB and other programs. Consumers are constantly demanding more information about the foods they consume. If the consumer should get the idea that they are being mislead, perception will become reality.
Go to the CAB website. http://www.certifiedangusbeef.com
The following statement is from their web site. "The Certified Angus Beef ® brand—Angus beef at its best! ® "
Irregardless what we may think, this is just one statement on this website that is misleading to the consumer. This website certainly presents CAB as "Angus" beef.
At http://www.herefordbeef.org (CHB website) One must dig through the information on this site for the qualifications of CHB. Once again this can certainly be percieved as misleading. Here is a quote from the FAQ section:
CHB Program Requirements FAQs
Q: What cattle are eligible for Certified Hereford Beef?
A: Hereford and English Baldy (Hereford crossed with Angus, Red Angus, Shorthorn)steers and heifers.
Q: Who determines CHB eligibility?
A: All CHB eligible cattle and carcasses are Certified by USDA at program approved harvest facilities. Live animals are evaluated for confirmation to CHB visual specifications of hide color and other breed indicators. Each carcass is individually certified by USDA graders. Both live animal and carcass specifications are determined by Certified Hereford Beef LLC and posted to the USDA website at http://www.usda.gov eifers.
I see both sides of the argument. Some people will not care. I wouldn't bet the future on the consumer not caring. Consumers do care, and they care about more than some think. There are consumers that not only care about what their meat tastes like, but also how the cattle are raised, what they are fed, etc...
Have a nice day.
Greg
The average beef consumer may not know the difference between a hereford, an angus, or a brahma, but they certainly know about CAB, CHB and other programs. Consumers are constantly demanding more information about the foods they consume. If the consumer should get the idea that they are being mislead, perception will become reality.
Go to the CAB website. http://www.certifiedangusbeef.com
The following statement is from their web site. "The Certified Angus Beef ® brand—Angus beef at its best! ® "
Irregardless what we may think, this is just one statement on this website that is misleading to the consumer. This website certainly presents CAB as "Angus" beef.
At http://www.herefordbeef.org (CHB website) One must dig through the information on this site for the qualifications of CHB. Once again this can certainly be percieved as misleading. Here is a quote from the FAQ section:
CHB Program Requirements FAQs
Q: What cattle are eligible for Certified Hereford Beef?
A: Hereford and English Baldy (Hereford crossed with Angus, Red Angus, Shorthorn)steers and heifers.
Q: Who determines CHB eligibility?
A: All CHB eligible cattle and carcasses are Certified by USDA at program approved harvest facilities. Live animals are evaluated for confirmation to CHB visual specifications of hide color and other breed indicators. Each carcass is individually certified by USDA graders. Both live animal and carcass specifications are determined by Certified Hereford Beef LLC and posted to the USDA website at http://www.usda.gov eifers.
I see both sides of the argument. Some people will not care. I wouldn't bet the future on the consumer not caring. Consumers do care, and they care about more than some think. There are consumers that not only care about what their meat tastes like, but also how the cattle are raised, what they are fed, etc...
Have a nice day.
Greg
SF
Well-known member
Follow up to my earlier comments. In spite of what I find may be misleading about CHB and CAB, I do think both programs are terrific and i think they have both helped the beed industry a great deal.
