Certified angus concerns

[Anonymous]

I have a few concerns about this certified angus craze that is going on right now.First of all I applaud the angus breeders that launched this campaign it is absolutely amazing.Angus cattle are the highest selling cattle at the auction barns now hands down.Alot of people I know will not buy anything other than certified angus because they say it's better and are willing to pay a premium price for it.My concern is that are we heading for a single breed in the U.S. or will we eventually go down the beef isle at the grocery store and pick from angus herford char. ect. Any thoughts on this?

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[Anonymous]

My thoughts are that we are indeed headed for a one beef breed in North America. There is basically one hog breed and one chicken breed so it only makes sense that cattle follow.

It will eventually come down to using semen of only specific bulls chosen by the packers in there efforts to unify ever piece of meat that they cut.

I beleive we are on the edge of a major revamping of the beef industry. Scary thought.



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[Anonymous]

You are right to be concerned about CAB but not for the reasons you state. For reasons of deception, CAB is not a good program.

As far as one breed of beef becoming dominant in the meat case, let the market decide. If consumers prefer a certain product, that is fine and they will decide with their dollars.

In regard to your concern about moving to one breed, it won't happen. At one time the hereford breed was said to hold 80% of the market. Breed fads come and go.

 

[Anonymous]

CAB has been the most successful branded beef program in the US. But it's taken it almost 30 years to become as successful as it is today. There were some "lean" years for the program and the Angus Assn. I think beef production is going to be more consumer-driven in the future than it has been in the past. So it will be up to consumers to decide what sort of beef they want to eat, Lauras Lean, Nolan Ryan's tenderized, CAB, and are willing to pay for. And it will be up to breeders of various breeds to "build" cattle that will meet the consumer's demands. The preferred beef of consumers in the US (probably the world) is US grainfed Choice beef. And there is not enough of it most of the year. The Choice to Select spread is currently about $16 cwt. That's what drives Angus acceptance, the belief that they will feed efficiently and grade higher than other breeds. Today 60% of the cattle herds in the US have some Angus influence. The Angus Assn. expects that to increase to 80% during the next 10 years. I think it's going to happen in Canada, too. Whether the other breeds stay around or not will depend on how they fit into the market or crossbreed with Angus. Crossbreeding is an important tool for the commercial cattleman, but consistency is very important to the consumer. We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

> I have a few concerns about this
> certified angus craze that is
> going on right now.First of all I
> applaud the angus breeders that
> launched this campaign it is
> absolutely amazing.Angus cattle
> are the highest selling cattle at
> the auction barns now hands
> down.Alot of people I know will
> not buy anything other than
> certified angus because they say
> it's better and are willing to pay
> a premium price for it.My concern
> is that are we heading for a
> single breed in the U.S. or will
> we eventually go down the beef
> isle at the grocery store and pick
> from angus herford char. ect. Any
> thoughts on this?

 

[Anonymous]

What did Yogi say? Something like "the future is really interesting because it hasn't happened yet" (paraphrased). Will be very interesting to see what happens.

Gentlemen, place your bets.

 

[Anonymous]

> You are right to be concerned
> about CAB but not for the reasons
> you state. For reasons of
> deception, CAB is not a good
> program.

> As far as one breed of beef
> becoming dominant in the meat
> case, let the market decide. If
> consumers prefer a certain
> product, that is fine and they
> will decide with their dollars.

> In regard to your concern about
> moving to one breed, it won't
> happen. At one time the hereford
> breed was said to hold 80% of the
> market. Breed fads come and go. Don't stick your head too far into the sand by saying that the beef industry won' go the same way as hog & poultry did. As for fads coming and going I'm afraid that fads are on the way out, its just not business like.



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[Anonymous]

> What did Yogi say? Something like
> "the future is really
> interesting because it hasn't
> happened yet" (paraphrased).
> Will be very interesting to see
> what happens.

> Gentlemen, place your bets. I applaud the CAB progam but when you give your stats and talk about predictability and consistency they sound very impressive but you forgot one stat and that is that of all the cattle put on feed for CAB only 20% make the cut to be marketed for CAB that is a pretty inconsistent stat.



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[Anonymous]

So what is "business like", breeding for hide color?

Pretty much irrelevant anyway. The vast majority of cattle operations are NOT operated in a business like manner.

As for beef going the genetic way of pork and poultry. Again, that is not going to happen because there are some very fundemental differences between the species and the people who own the stock.

If I am wrong and the genetics of the beef industry DO go the way of pork and poultry, you Angus breeders aren't going to be too happy. Pork and fowl companies all use muliple lines of hybrid crosses, In layman's terms COMPOSITES.

 

[Anonymous]

Considering that Limousin, Simmental, Maines, Chi, black baldies (Hereford) all can now produce a calf that meets the visual specs for CAB, I'm surprised we're still at 20%! Cattle known to be sired by Angus bulls meet CAB specs at a higher rate. There are herds running straightbred Angus that do much better than 20%.

 

[Anonymous]

> So what is "business
> like", breeding for hide
> color?

> Pretty much irrelevant anyway. The
> vast majority of cattle operations
> are NOT operated in a business
> like manner.

> As for beef going the genetic way
> of pork and poultry. Again, that
> is not going to happen because
> there are some very fundemental
> differences between the species
> and the people who own the stock.

> If I am wrong and the genetics of
> the beef industry DO go the way of
> pork and poultry, you Angus
> breeders aren't going to be too
> happy. Pork and fowl companies all
> use muliple lines of hybrid
> crosses, In layman's terms
> COMPOSITES.

When I said business like I should have said "business like" I was trying to be sarcastic and I am not an Angus breeder, and what is a composite? I think the purebred industry is just composite breeders who lie what Angus doesn't have some Chi or Holstein in it or a Hereford that doesn't have some Simental or Maine or whatever it is that is causing all the brockle faced animals that are showing up in the Hereford Journal, and what is a Simental, Maine, Limi. etc. you get my drift. Again I say we can't bury our heads in the sand and say "it won't happen in the beef industry " because that is when it will.



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[Anonymous]

i dont know whether it is me or not but everyone needs to wake up the beef industry is definitely going where the pork and poultry has gone i predict within my death (next 40 yrs. or so) that it will be just be that several main big companies will own the beef industry and people who do raise cattle it will just be a hobby like for private slaugter or if bored etc... well i should really say only several main companies will control the entire agriculture market if the government dont step in and stop it that is if the animal rights activists dont get a hold of the beef industry then there will not be one. as for one breed yes in a way of sorts of course but all the breeds will play their role but will be crossed with this "one breed" just like someone said composites or maybe im just to pessimistic, just my opinion tell me if i am wrong but it will come down to what the packers want nobody else

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[Anonymous]

Other breeds also have the option to develop a following; CAB has the advantage of foresight and they began to develop their niche many years ago. Since CAB is not breed specific, but percentage of black hide specific, this may explain why we are seeing breeds that traditionally were not black going that way?

Good beef will sell, no matter the hide color. Angus breeders have been working very hard on genetics for the carcass qualities and characteristics that the consumers want, everyone should be doing that, no matter what the color is.

What we should be worrying about is not the color of the hide, but how do we get get a reasonable return for our efforts?

A union, maybe?

 

[Anonymous]

That is what makes speculating about the future so interesting, it almost never happens like the experts expect. Often, something new is developed that changes the basis of competition within an industry.

The beef industry is over-ripe for some new technology. My prediction is that something will come along that will dramatically alter the beef industry as we know it today.

A good model for those who believe one breed will dominant is the dairy industry rather than chicken or pork.

I don't believe beef will head that direction. I will predict that beef industry genetics will grow even more diverse, not more homogenized.

 

[Anonymous]

There is a misconception that we are producing something the consumer wants when in fact we are producing something the packers want. The perception from consumers is that Branded beef ( whatever brand it is) is far superior, better fed and cared for, lovingly slaughtered, individually wrapped and inspected, stamped, approved, tested, tasty etc. etc. and that all others no matter how well they grade are rejects for one reason or other.

The packers biggest concern is moving as much beef as they can in the shortest time possible. If they really wanted to sell the consumer what they wanted the packers would be dry aging every carcass of beef. The Branded beef products have done an excellent job of promoting beef and the packers are simply taking full advantage of the free advertising, to the point of endorsing it.

Packers asked producers to make the beef fit the "box" now they are asking us to make the beef steak to fit the "tray" because they are wanting to capture the large retail end of the beef processing. This will eliminate a huge portion of instore butchers.

The next logical phase of the commercial take over would be the elimination of union plant workers who command monthly salaries. How do they do that? By only purchasing cattle that fit the butchering and cutting machines. If every beef is the same size shape and weight, ( peas in a pod) then they can fully automate the entire kill, gut, de hide, cut and wrap process from start to finish.

Sounds incredible but it is the next logical step.



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[Anonymous]

Very interesting post and scenario. From a packer perspective it makes perfect sense.

There is only one flaw in your theory. The profit motive is not the primary driver of why the majority of people raise cattle in this country. In the U.S. most cattle businesses are a byproduct of land ownership. That is a very key difference between the beef industry and the pigmeat and fowl people.

Here is why that is relevant. The genetic decisions are made by individual operator/land owners, in most cases, so even as the packer offers more money for what they want and less for what doesn't fit, there is no leverage for forcing the "correct" genetics on the producer who isn't driven strictly by profit.

 

[Anonymous]

Your point about the individual producers being basically landowners as making choices of their own as a key ingredient in keeping the beef industry unique from Hogs and chickens is absolutely correct..... however..

There is nothing in the future that sez they cannot ultimately refuse to purchase (at any price) livestock that does not fit the machinery. That is a huge leverage for forcing the "correct" genetics.

A person can make a good guess about where the packing industry is going if you try to think like them. They have been extremely successful at marketing beef and as a result, require a constant supply the entire year through to meet obligations. This has 'forced' them to make contracts and alliances with producers in order to capture a supply when needed. This is frowned on by many producers as favoritism as it guarantees a captive supply at a set price. I can certainly see why they do this but if it begins to become the norm rather than the open market place that sets the price then the purchasing power of the Packer becomes out of balance, and the ones left out in the cold will be individuals using their own genetics.

I understand what you are saying about the difference between Hog/chickens and beef with the land issues as most of these are huge operations owned by corporations where as beef people are individuals in most cases. However I disagree with you that they are a by-product of land ownership. I would say that the majority of cattle people are here to make a living and hopefully a good profit raising beef and that it is their number one reason for owning land.



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[Anonymous]

No, don't really believe that your thinking is flawed, only that your view of the industry is different than mine.

Think our main point of difference is our individual views on the total makeup of beef producers. Sure there are many producers who own the land primarily as a means to produce beef and hope to make a reasonable product, but I disagree that they are the majority.

Even if they were, most do not actually make a true profit or return on their investments. Most are subsidizing thier cattle operations with the value of their land and other "off farm" income.

So I guess where we see the structure of today's industry differently, naturally we would project the future differently based on personal assumptions.

One of the points of my previous posts, is that even if one of our views is absolutely correct today and we project from correct assumptions, we still probably are going to be wrong, because of unforseen events, technology, new processes, etc.

 

[Anonymous]

I see lots of jealousy towards the Black Angus breed, or black hides, probly a black angus cross...Long horns ruled for a very long time , then they amost went extinct and if not for there horns as a novelty they would be gone, probly ... The Herefords were the cattle of choice for over 50 years, that also passed....Some where the little black cows came on to the stage and was finally have their place in the lime light... I believe this will also come to pass but when, who knows.. Like it or not the Little black polled cows have had a large impact on the cattle industry. Black Baldies, Brangus,Limms, Simms,and the list goes on.. In fact If the cattle industry goes to composites it will probly have Black Angus involved...prehaps as much as 5/8... Like IT or Not... alf

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[Anonymous]

Interesting opinion EXCEPT, little cows?????

 

[Anonymous]

> 40 years ago as a boy on my Uncle Farm,yes Black Angus were small, at least in comparison to Herefords or Holsteins.. I have see thier size go up and back down, yes and still small compared to some breeds. 25 years ago I was involed with some show stock in central Cal. Herefords and Short horns.. I love shorthorns but I own the Little Black cows 1250 lbs not 1500 or 1750 lbs cows.

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